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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, January 17, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.
Members attending were: Gerald Cartmell, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel. Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.
Visitors attending were: Joseph & Karen Balka, Terry Pickens, Brett B. Gibson, Tina Bernacchi, Packen Kentaft, Marty Martindale, M J Pritchett, Tom Pritchett, Toby Beach, Sherry Reef, Dan Reef, Kelvin Hughes, Sandra L Beach, Perry McWilliams, Angela S. Hughes, Heidi Anderson, Jennifer Frahm and Ben Woodhouse (Deputy).
The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken. Charlie Mellon made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the, December 20, 2007 meeting. Motion was seconded by and carried unanimously. Attorney Bumbleburg swore in all Board members and audience members.
President Stimmel stated, the first thing on the agenda tonight is reorganization. Do we have any discussion about that?
Jerry Thompson stated, by law you should let Joe handle that.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Jerry Thompson stated, seriously.
President Stimmel stated, that’s fine, that’s fine.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, very well thank you Mr. Chairman. You have a President and a Vice President and any other officers that I’m not aware of?
Director Weaver stated, Secretary.
President Stimmel stated, Secretary.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, and a Secretary and Diann do you serve in that capacity?
Director Weaver stated, I have already been reappointed.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, very well, okay so you are the Secretary. Very well, acting as the Chairman Pro-Tem I will accept nominations for the President.
Dave Scott stated, I’m going to make a motion that we leave the officers the way they are.
Several Board Members seconded it.
President Stimmel asked, all in favor?
Board Members stated, aye.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, very well.
President Stimmel stated, that’s passed I guess we’ve taken care of that.
Jerry Thompson stated, I’m going to say this one thing and then I’ll quit.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Jerry Thompson stated, just to second what basically what you’re saying Dave, appreciate Mr. Bumbleburg coming tonight filling in for us on a short notice and appreciate his services and I think I speak for the Board.
President Stimmel stated, absolutely.
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#2677 Toby M. & Sandra L. Beach; The property is located on .57 of an Acre, Out NE NW 8-27-03, located North of Monticello off of East Shafer Drive and CR 400 N at 3987 N. Dolby Court. Tabled from November 15. 2007 and December 20, 2007.
Violation: Built without a permit and not meeting setbacks.
Request: They are requesting a 22’ front setback variance (CR 400 N) and a 29’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the existing garage into compliance and a 21’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the existing house into compliance and for a room addition and a 2’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct. and a 4’ side setback variance for an unroofed deck and a 24’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the pool into compliance.
President Stimmel asked, is there anyone here represent the Beach’s? Yes sir.
Toby Beach stated, my name is Toby and we were here in November obviously. The first part of that is the house was put there prior to the building permits being needed in Liberty Township, some of that is just to bring all those into compliance. The room addition was a proposed room addition and the deck, I was asked to bring a letter from my neighbors which I have done. I don’t know if you’ve seen that or not, it’s been notarized.
Director Weaver stated, he did bring that to me just before meeting and that is in the file.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, Mr. Bumbleburg’s desk.
Toby Beach stated, the pool, we put the pool in, it was done without a permit. We were told we didn’t need a permit and we were just simply asking for a variance for that.
President Stimmel stated, okay there was some discussion Mr. Beach about the fact that we were going to have somebody from the, representing from the pool company itself and he was to testify to what to what affect, what was the issue he was going to address, whether you were told you needed, didn’t need permits.
Toby Beach stated, we were told we did not need permits when they put it in.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Toby Beach stated, um Tom’s crew came and put it in without getting, or without needing the permits or without checking for the permits so we were simply just asking for a variance for that.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right, all right. Any questions from the Board.
Charlie Mellon stated, we ought to hear from the pool man.
President Stimmel stated, well the two things that we need, one thing is we need to address the variance number 1, the other thing is to address the violation because we didn’t address either one because it’s been tabled both times right. All right, historically we’ve addressed the variance first, is that correct, so let’s discuss or move ahead on the variance then before we get to the violation.
Charlie Mellon stated, I think we had a long discussion in November on most all of that and it was, I’m sure it was agreed, I didn’t hunt up my old minutes that he met with the neighbor and got a 4’ extension from him or something that we would go along with it and that maybe what that letter is about.
Toby Beach stated, that is.
Jerry Thompson stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, let’s find the letter first so we can, Joe so we can…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, here’s a letter that’s Mr. Beach’s letter, here’s a letter from Mr. Gibson, the attorney, Diann’s, Diann’s.
Director Weaver stated, look underneath those 2 from me Joe.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, pardon.
Director Weaver stated, look underneath the two from me. Maybe it’s on the bottom on that side.
Charlie Mellon stated, it’s supposed to have been from a neighbor I think.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. Let me just read the letter if you don’t mind and then we can pass it around if we need to. It says dear Toby and Sandy Beach, reference property, I, Carl David McClaine will donate the property needed or required by the board to complete the memorial that you have started for your deceased daughter, Megan Beach. All expenses transpiring from this donation will be paid by Toby and Sandy Beach. If the Board has any further questions concerning this transaction or agreement, the Board can contact me via cell phone number 574-870-2796 or home phone 574-583-4791 or in writing at this address. Carl David McClaine, 3965 N. Dolby Court, Monticello, IN 47960, Your Friend and Neighbor, Carl David McClaine, December 16, 2007 and notarized by Eldenna Stevenson, a notary republic. So that’s going to take care of what portion of the variance request?
Charlie Mellon stated, well if I remember right, that was to take care of all of the variances plus they had a real strong, since they’ve lost their daughter hardship case and I think we read off most of that if they got that 4’ extension from the neighbors. That’s the way I can remember it.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, well the additional property is only going to take care of the side setback variance for the deck.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, that’s not going to address, Charlie the, around to the, what direction is it?
Charlie Mellon stated, well if I remember right we addressed all of that, the ground and all the other surrounding things that was out of kilter I guess you might as well say and we agreed that if they would go ahead and get the 4’ variance thing from the neighbors why we’d go a long with it.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s the way I understood it.
Toby Beach stated, I think that’s what I was told when we were here in November also.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. Any other discussion?
Gerald Cartmell asked, on those rough lots he’s got 2 fronts right?
Toby Beach stated, 3 fronts.
Director Weaver stated, he’s actually got 3.
President Stimmel stated, and you can see the location on the survey where the blacktop leaves versus the easement, that’s 24’ actually 26’ from the deck to the blacktop.
Gerald Cartmell asked, if he’s in the City of Monticello that wouldn’t be a problem, would it?
President Stimmel stated, no. Okay Jerry anything?
Jerry Thompson stated, no I didn’t know if the fellow representing the pool had anything to add or not.
President Stimmel stated, that may be an issue for the violation and that’s where that’s going to come in possible.
Jerry Thompson stated, okay, well, okay. That’s fine.
President Stimmel stated, he’s certainly welcome to speak but I’m just thinking out loud.
Jerry Thompson stated, okay, that’s fine, no I have nothing else.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no, I’m, that’s all I got to say.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, no that’s all thank you.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald?
Gerald Cartmell stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, all right are we ready to vote?
Jerry Thompson stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, all right we’re going to vote on the variance.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114. The adjoining owner of the real estate to the South shall deed 4 feet so that this request is in compliance with the side setbacks for the unroofed deck.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 22’ front setback variance (CR 400 N) and a 29’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the existing garage into compliance and a 21’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the existing house into compliance and for a room addition and a 2’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct) for an unroofed deck and a 24’ front setback variance (Dolby Ct.) to bring the pool into compliance on that part of the Northwest Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of Section 8, Township 27 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, described by:
Beginning at the Northeast corner of the Northeast Quarter of the Northwest Quarter of the above said Section 8; thence South 120.7 feet; thence North 88 degrees West 158.9 feet; thence North 84.8 feet; thence South 89 degrees 6 minutes West 177.8 feet; thence North 32.9 feet to the North line of the above said Section 8; thence North 89 degrees 6 minutes East 336.7 feet to the point of beginning, containing .57 of an Acre, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monticello off of East Shafer Drive and CR 400 N. at 3987 N. Dolby Court.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.
President Stimmel stated, announcing the results of the balloting, there are 5 votes cast and 5 votes vote to approve the variance. The variance is approved and you need to get a building permit because they were approved. Now let’s address the violation itself and this maybe the time for the gentleman from the pool company, I think to speak about the facts and how it came to be that they did not obtain the proper permits.
Brett Gibson stated, I’m Brett Gibson, I’m an attorney in Lafayette and I’m accompanied today by the owner of Blue Diamond Pools and Spas, M J Pritchett and also a manager there Tom Pritchett and the relationship between Blue Diamond and the Beach’s is defined by a contract that Blue Diamond was to do and the contract specifically provides that the homeowner shall obtain all permits necessary and the work was actually done by an independent contractor, Cabrera Construction actually performed that work. The rule Blue Diamond sold that pool and delivered it and what not but the contract provided that the owner would obtain the permits and I have a copy of that to share with the Board but Blue Diamond was sent a letter and requested to appear here and they are here and the owner’s available to answer any questions but their role defined why the contract in this particular which these type of installs vary, there’s a lot of people want to save money and do some of the stuff their selves, other people want you to do it all. In this particular case the Beach’s assume the responsibility of that permit and while I’m up here I do want to thank the Board for granting their variance. I spoke with them I think they’re nice people and I think that was appropriate in this situation but Cabrera Construction did that install. Their not controlled by Blue Diamond and their non-employees their independent.
Toby Beach asked, who sent them?
Brett Gibson stated, they’re an independent contractor. I can share a copy of this with you.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right. That’ll become part of the record if that’s all right.
Brett Gibson stated, and if there are any questions of the owners or what the manager, I don’t know what they could add just quite frankly other than what I said but they are available if there are questions on that. That’s a common practice to divide responsibility presented to a contract or and define who’s going to do what and that’s in there and just to draw your eyes to where that’s at if you look on the top page there under general construction standard plans and permits to be provided by the owner and that’s defined.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, I’d like to see, I’d like, oh my turn?
President Stimmel stated, yes, go ahead.
Dave Scott stated, I’d like to see the contractor come up if you don’t mind.
President Stimmel stated, sure, sure.
Dave Scott stated, and talk to the contractors.
President Stimmel asked, who would that have been?
Charlie Mellon stated, owners back there.
President Stimmel stated, I don’t think, is there…
Brett Gibson stated, the owner, someone from Blue Diamond’s here, the contractors not here.
Dave Scott stated okay my question would be is there anywhere that you put swimming pools that you don’t need a permit.
M J Pritchett stated, M J Pritchett, Blue Diamond Pools and Spas. Is there anywhere that you put a swimming pool that you don’t need a permit.
Charlie Mellon stated, no, that you don’t check the permit, that’s what he said.
Dave Scott stated, well you’ve got the documentation here that it is their responsibility to get the permit but if bothers me a little bit about doing this, I mean it’s small print and…
M J Pritchett stated, well our contract actually is…
Dave Scott stated I know how big this contract is, I’m telling you that it’s in the small print and I can’t believe that anybody would especially your contractor would put a pool or do any work without permits especially if your from Lafayette, they’ve been permitting long before we have and I guess we’re not holding you responsible at this point but, I don’t like it that you guys went ahead and done it without making sure that these people had the proper permits. They’re not in the business, they’re citizens out here and they bought a pool or they bought a shed or they had a house built or something and their assuming that somebody that’s in the business knows what they need. I realize you’re perfectly legal here and we can’t fine you because of this contract but I’ll just tell you I don’t like it. I can’t say anymore.
President Stimmel stated, if I can say, or ask one more question is Cabrera Construction is that somebody you use all the time Ma’am.
M J Pritchett stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, it is.
M J Pritchett stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, have they ever had any issues like this before?
M J Pritchett stated, Giermo works in several different areas including Chicago Illinois down into Indiana and over but on our contract whenever we go through this we do have line item boxes that we go through and fill out, as we’re filling out the contract with the customer because there are a lot of things on here that we have to ask them, if they want those things and then we have to note beside them who is responsible for them or whether they get these particular line items things with their pool so that that way we make sure that we don’t miss anything and that’s why, why we have the fill in boxes that we have on here.
Dave Scott stated, I understand that you’re completely legal.
M J Pritchett stated, so…
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, where is it in this contract? Forgive me for interrupting Mr. Chairman.
President Stimmel stated, that’s fine.
Charlie Mellon stated, no, that’s fine.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that where we, where we find the role of this contractor, so I understand you sell the pool.
M J Pritchett stated, um hum.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, correct me if I’m wrong, you deliver all the parts and everything and whatever to the site.
M J Pritchett stated, right.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, and then this other outfit comes in and builds. Is there a separate contract with them?
M J Pritchett stated, we don’t always do, have Giermo build our pools.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that’s not what I asked you. I’m talking about this deal here. Was there a separate contract with Giermo to build this pool?
M J Pritchett stated, there was not a contract with him as far as anything in writing to build this pool. He’s like any other subcontractor that you might call up to say come fix my air conditioning or something like that. They come out, they do the work and you’ve now subcontracted someone and you don’t always have a contract. We have a relationship with him and he has done work for us in the past.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I think we need to get a hold of that contractor.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, somebody told these people that they didn’t have to have a permit. I don’t think the guy is going to lie to us.
M J Pritchett stated, Giermo doesn’t have anything to do with this once this is signed.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I didn’t say he did.
M J Pritchett stated, he has…
Gerald Cartmell stated, but I’m saying somebody needed a permit and they didn’t.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, Mr. Chairman again, if I could, Mr. Beach you told us that somebody told you that you didn’t have to get a permit.
Toby Beach stated, yes.
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, who told you that?
Toby Beach stated, they told us in the store we asked, I specifically asked that question and we were told that we did not need a permit.
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, and which store, whose store?
Charlie Mellon stated, where they bought it.
Toby Beach stated, that young lady’s store, yes.
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, you mean in Blue Diamond’s store?
Toby Beach stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, go ahead Charlie.
Charlie Mellon stated, you know if this company is that big and hired that contractor to put them up in Chicago or all over the state and everything, it looks like that one element that he would make sure, or they would make sure that they had a permit and any other we’re late here in Indiana getting permits, well up here in White County. Lafayette has had them a lot longer, Chicago surely had them. We’ve had trouble before with people out of county.
President Stimmel stated, what I’m hearing though is the contractor was not, pardon me, not the person that told the Beach’s that they didn’t need a permit.
Dave Scott stated, it doesn’t sound like it.
President Stimmel stated, it was the salesman or the person in the store itself where he bought the pool.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes that’s right.
Toby Beach stated, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, sounds like.
Toby Beach stated, however we do still use them even though, even after we started getting a variance, I don’t want to make them mad but…
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Toby Beach stated, unfortunately it’s coming to that.
Dave Scott stated, well you know, somebody should have made sure these people got a permit and just for the sake of things moving on you’ve got where they’ve signed that they didn’t need a permit and the contractor is not here. I’m going to make a motion that we waive the fine in this case but the only thing I can tell you if I see this again, there’s one vote that’s going to vote another way so I’ll just make a motion that we waive the fine against the…
President Stimmel asked, got a move, we’ve got a motion on the floor got a second? Want to talk about it some more?
Jerry Thompson stated, I’ll second.
President Stimmel stated, it’s moved and seconded that we waive the fine on this particular violation. All in favor say aye.
Board Members stated, aye.
President Stimmel asked, all opposed?
Board Members stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, I’d say it was 3 to 2 that we the motion failed. Is that correct?
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s right.
President Stimmel stated, all right, Gerald you got any other alternatives you want to explore?
Gerald Cartmell stated, I’m kind of looking at my attorney back there. What else do we have?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, at this stage it’s, it would appear to me that the guy who built isn’t here which means that you have no way to get to him.
Gerald Cartmell asked, doesn’t he have an address, a phone?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, well it’s not a matter of record here at any rate. The second thing is that you have this contract which says that the owner has to do that and while the owner may have dealt with bad advice it indeed would appear to be the contractual responsibility of the owner, now the Board I think has to decide whether or not the bad advice was at this owners own fault or not and not with standing that this Board presumably will have a long memory if this contractor and this seller ever show up again certainly with this kind of problem but it seems to me like the way the party’s are laid out the only, if you will target is the petitioner who had the contractual responsibility, who was badly advised and I think the Board’s decision rests then about, you know, does the ordinary citizen who takes the advice of people that they think know their business and then get stuck. Should you then, you know…
Gerald Cartmell stated, kind of like buyer beware.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, well maybe.
Gerald Cartmell stated, read the fine print.
President Stimmel asked, how many times have we run into this with modular home? So it doesn’t really matter what you’re selling.
Charlie Mellon asked, is the pool finished?
Toby Beach stated, yes sir.
Charlie Mellon stated, okay, that’ll help.
Toby Beach stated, I believe it was August.
Dave Scott stated, well my question is, a licensed contractor goes out and does a job, is told to do a job by an owner and he goes ahead and does the work and knows better, knows he needs a permit. Is he any way liable, or is it still the property owner’s responsibility?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, I think in this case they vested the responsibility…
Dave Scott stated, they’ve signed off on it.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, in the Beach’s, and as much as you don’t like that, that is what the contractual obligation is.
Dave Scott stated, yes, right.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, and I understand why you don’t like it because you don’t like a citizen to be put upon.
Dave Scott stated, um hum.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, um but in this case, Cabrera had, you know they just went out and put it in and presumably, well maybe not presumably, they didn’t know, we don’t know whether they knew what they were supposed to do or not. Blue Diamond, it appears that an agent of Blue Diamond may have misled the Beach’s but indeed if that’s true that’s a problem between Beach’s and Blue Diamond, not this Board.
M J Pritchett asked, may I add something?
President Stimmel stated, yes ma’am.
M J Pritchett stated, we do go over each thing, like I said line item by line item by line item so that we make sure that they understand it and sometimes we go over this 2 or 3 times with them so we make them fully aware of what it is because we are not the type of company that tries to slough something like this off on someone to get them in trouble. We try to help protect them and protect their assets by all means. Now we are aware of that there are still some county’s in the State of Indiana that do not require building permits so that is one reason that we do go over this with them is because we don’t know every county and we don’t know every county’s law or rules.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s county’s that’s not zoned probably though. That doesn’t require a permit.
M J Pritchett stated, right and we don’t know from county to county so that’s why we do go over this and we do try to protect our customer’s assets and make them aware and make them responsible homeowners. First thing, one of the reasons that we have them go do the permit is because we don’t know their plat. We don’t know their property plat, we don’t know the setbacks and we don’t know the boundaries, so that is one reason why when we set them down, we go over this with them and let them know about checking into getting permits that way they can go down, they can look at their plats, they know what size pool they can pick out first of all because obviously in this situation you couldn’t put a 20 x 40 pool in there.
Toby Beach stated, it’s not a 25 or a 20 x 45.
M J Pritchett stated, so this pool…
Dave Scott stated, we’re dealing with a he said, she said situation here and the only thing I would say is and in the future…
M J Pritchett stated, right.
Dave Scott stated, I mean you’re dealing with people that don’t do this on a daily basis and you do. Your contractor should.
M J Pritchett stated, in like 10 years this is the first time.
Dave Scott stated, yes.
M J Pritchett stated, this is my first time in 10 years so I mean, you know, I haven’t had a customer that has not obtained a permit or gotten the proper, whatever they need in 10 years so…
President Stimmel stated, let’s move ahead. We’ve put down a motion to disregard the fine. Let’s hear another motion.
Dave Scott stated, I’ll make another motion.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I move that we strike the fine but if this company wants to build another pool in White County they make sure there is a permit.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’d second that.
M J Pritchett stated, we can, absolutely, we can do that.
President Stimmel stated, okay it’s been moved and seconded that we disregard the fine in this case and that the pool company is to make sure that the owners, previous contractors, people they contract with are to get permits.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, make sure, yes.
President Stimmel asked, right? Am I saying that all right? Moved and seconded.
Charlie Mellon stated, I seconded.
President Stimmel asked, all in favor?
Board members stated, aye.
President Stimmel stated, okay, moved and seconded. No, fine just make sure they get a permit.
M J Pritchett stated, thank you.
President Stimmel stated, I would like to say honestly that I appreciate you showing up, honestly that is going the extra mile and I appreciate you being here.
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#2665 Terrence M. Pickens; The property is located on Lot 13, 14, 15, and 16 in White Point Hinshaw Addition, located just North of C.R. 225 N at 2406 – 2412 N. West Shafer Drive. Tabled from December 20, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 20’ front setback variance and an 8 parking space variance to bring the existing 4 rental units and corresponding carports into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance due to the road widening project.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Terry Pickens stated, Terry Pickens of 2410 West Shafer Drive.
President Stimmel asked, right, Terry is there anything you can add to that or want to add to it?
Terry Pickens stated, yes. Yes there is. My property was affected by the road widening project and the road was lowered to the point where my property was not even accessible. I had to re-grade and remove the garage just to be able to access my property. Most of the parking was taken, the home was surrendered through eminent domain. What I’m trying to accomplish is to make use of the remainder of the property in terms of making is accessible and what I really want to do is put a metal carport on the same footprint as where the garage is that was torn down. That’s what I’m trying to accomplish in order to use the property.
President Stimmel stated, Mr. Pickens I’ve been out there and I think several of the other members have been out there an I guess what I’m trying to understand from the drawing that we have where is the carport that you are wanting to put on?
Terry Pickens stated, I want to put it on, if you look at the drawing you’ll see a garage which I tore down on lots 14, 15, 16, uh 14 and 15.
President Stimmel stated, I see one building that says garage.
Terry Pickens stated, right, there is no…
President Stimmel asked, is that the one that is tore down?
Terry Pickens stated, yes it is and I had to tear that down in order to lower the grade level so that I could even get into the property. You know, I’m so close to the road now that if I don’t pull up into the property it’s going to create a hazard for people that are driving by so I remove the garage, I’ve brought in a piece of equipment at my own expense and I lowered the grade entirely throughout on all the lots in order to be able to drive into the property.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Terry Pickens stated, because it was just too steep the way it was left to me. So I’m asking to put up a metal carport right there on the same footprint as where the garage was, which would give me 6’ off of the side of that cabin and no bigger than the garage was that was there before, 24 x 26, it would be 24’ wide by 26’ in depth, the same type of construction of the carports that you see there being put up, Mr. Harrison sells them in town here.
President Stimmel stated, I notice the one carport that we drove by tonight that was beside, one of them is just essentially a carport and one of them is actually enclosed in front is that correct?
Terry Pickens stated, yes, it keeps some of the materials out of the weather since I’m no longer able to use the garage. It was not accessible, it needed to be removed so that I could lower the topography of the property.
President Stimmel asked, okay, Jerry do you have anything?
Jerry Thompson stated, no, not right now.
President Stimmel asked, not right now?
Jerry Thompson stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Charlie any questions?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I thought we asked for a drawing.
President Stimmel stated, we asked for an additional drawing which, actually what I think we asked for and I’m going to paraphrase this a little bit. We asked for Mr. Pickens and Diann to get together. I think we left it a little, a little undone there, okay. And I don’t know whose fault that was.
Terry Pickens stated, It takes time understand.
President Stimmel stated, right they didn’t get together and there wasn’t additional information provided by Mr. Pickens so there’s no sense in pointing anybody’s fingers at anybody but just the fact that that did not get done. We don’t have additional information than what we had the last time.
Director Weaver stated, I don’t know that this matters but I had talked to Dave Anderson about these carports, the building inspector and by definition of his ordinance these are not carports. By definition for him a carport has to have 2 sides open. So I just wanted to clarify that and not that it makes a difference to you but I wanted you to be aware of it because probably when the permits are issued, if this is approved they will be issued for garages.
Terry Pickens stated, actually, okay, on the one that I’m proposing I would leave it open on 4 sides.
Director Weaver stated, I just wanted to clear it up so they…
Terry Pickens stated, all right.
President Stimmel stated, the carports or the garages whatever you want to call them are already built. Have those been permitted, in other words were there building permits issued for those garages?
Director Weaver stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, there weren’t. So those were built without permits.
Terry Pickens stated, there’s a lot of things out there that were built without permits over the years.
President Stimmel stated, well I know historically but I’m saying this is new construction.
Terry Pickens stated, um this is not new construction they’ve been there a while.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Director Weaver stated, the building inspector informed me today that they were, they were there at one time, they were replaced within the past year.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Terry Pickens stated, actually I closed it in is what I did because I was taking the things out of the garage that I had to tear down and to put it in out of the weather and for security. We’ve had some things stolen around there.
President Stimmel asked, does the Board feel like we need anymore information than what we have? Do we want to…
Dave Scott asked, I’m just curious, do you own any property to the east of you, behind, or to the west, to the west of you?
Terry Pickens stated, to the west, that’s a questionable line of ownership. Unfortunately the 10,000 dollars I paid for the survey for the alter survey shows questionable lines of ownership. At one point I was being billed for a cabin behind me, I don’t know really if I own it or if I didn’t own it. I just want to resolve it and make use of the remainder of the property.
Dave Scott stated, I don’t know what lot it is.
Charlie Mellon stated, the one on the west end.
Dave Scott stated, I don’t have any problem with your carport as far as that goes the only thing I know is we, when I went by there tonight it’s extremely dangerous getting in and out access, ingress, and egress onto the property and I know that’s the hardship put on you by the county so I mean there’s nothing, I just wondered if there was another way to access that property.
Terry Pickens stated, I wish there were, you know and weather like tonight it could be treacherous that’s all the more reason I needed to lower that grade level so I could at least get in there with a vehicle you know, it affected the use of the property dramatically.
Dave Scott stated, yes I just thought if you owned the property back here you could consider…
Terry Pickens stated, I wish I did.
Dave Scott stated, a different way of accessing your lot.
Terry Pickens stated, I don’t know where the west boundary line is. I don’t think the surveyor knows where the west boundary line is.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Gerald anything? Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Jerry?
Jerry Thompson stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak about this variance? Okay, are ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, we’re ready to vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is currently zoned B-2, General Business.
2. That the lot is a lot of record created by the road widening project for West Shafer Drive. The road improvement took the applicant’s real estate and therefore crated a hardship. This is an attempt to minimize the effect.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 20’ front setback variance and an 8 parking space variance to bring the existing 4 rental units into compliance with the White County Zoning Ordinance due to the road widening project and corresponding carports on Lots Number Thirteen (13), Fourteen (14), Fifteen (15), and Sixteen (16) in White Point Hinshaw Addition, in Union Township, White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located just North of C.R. 225 N at 2406 – 2412 N. West Shafer Drive.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 1 negative.
President Stimmel stated, the result of the voting is 4 votes to grant and 1 vote to deny. The variance is carried. Be sure to get your building permits Mr. Pickens.
Terry Pickens asked, see Diann Weaver for the permits?
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, actually you need to see the building department.
Terry Pickens asked, Dave Anderson’s office?
Director Weaver stated, they’re in the same office with us.
Terry Pickens stated, okay I’ll do that and I thank you for your time this evening.
****
#2687 Perry McWilliams; The property is located on 15 & 16 in Boller Lakeview Addition located North of Monon Road on the East side of the Big Monon on C.R. 300 East. Tabled from December 20, 2007.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 30’ front setback variance and an 11’ rear setback variance to build a new home. (Measured from the overhangs).
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Perry McWilliams stated, Perry McWilliams.
President Stimmel stated, thanks Perry. Is there anything you want to add to that?
Perry McWilliams stated, I don’t think so, what, sorry about the survey Dave. Did you go back out there and look at the place?
President Stimmel stated, I was out there, I actually saw the truck leave and quite frankly I wish I would caught him because all he did was put the corners on lot 16, he didn’t touch 15. I have no idea where the ends of that lot are.
Perry McWilliams stated, I know the, I believe that’s in the water and the corner where all that brush is, all the way to that next house and through there.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Perry McWilliams stated, and I talked to Jim about that and he said hey, he was kind of like, you know I can’t, we can’t get this point put in there back in through there so I talked to him about that and then, like I said even the other point then Dave as well it’s out in the water where that other one is at.
President Stimmel stated, I can understand that but there were, there is surely a spot on the land where the, for the southwest corner of lot 15 there has to be something there because…
Perry McWilliams stated, exactly even if it’s at that, the fence post or something like that.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Perry McWilliams stated, the guy has right there, kind of like where the other lot is I mean it’s pretty much at the fence post so I would assume that but you know I look through past surveys and I tried to find that documentation on that point and I’m telling you, dating back, you know for 30 some years, I can’t, there’s no referencing of where that point is at there.
President Stimmel stated, the only reason for I think, I want everybody wanted to see more, to see some survey marks out there was trying to get an idea of the relationship of the road and those particular boundaries Perry and that was as you can see it is different from the fence and it’s different from the pole.
Perry McWilliams stated, now I agree and if you do approve this, this variance I know I need to put that point in because what I’d like to do and I told the folks at Shafer and Freeman Lakes Association my plan of attack would be this, first off removal of the trailer, okay let’s get that out of there and secondly I want to work on the shorefront and the only time I can work on that is with any kind of a structure there so I am going to need that point to help me determine if I’m going to you know bring sheeting or what I’m going to do in that area or maybe I’m just going to tuck it back around and dead end into, you where it’s at right now but you know for my own information I would kind of like that as well but the effort in doing that right now, it looks, you know, I don’t know he’d probably triangulate I suppose to try to get that fixed point.
President Stimmel stated, right.
Perry McWilliams stated, you know where that’s at.
President Stimmel stated, but anyway there’s more there than there was for sure.
Perry McWilliams stated, yes, yes.
President Stimmel stated, at least at some point.
Perry McWilliams stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, is there anybody else in the audience that wants to speak about this variance at all right now? Okay, all right I think just let us digest it a little bit, Perry if you don’t mind.
Perry McWilliams stated, yes and one more thing Dave just so I can clarify, you guys are going to see you know 2 surveys is what it appears. Your original survey shows the location of what I’m proposing you know to the boundaries, the second piece of paper you know that you have is what was requested at the table at the last meeting. You do have that right?
Director Weaver stated, they do have copies of the survey you brought in to the office today…
Perry McWilliams stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, and a copy of the letter from SFLECC.
Perry McWilliams stated, okay. And probably, and do they have the original Diann?
Director Weaver stated, yes they do have the originals also.
Perry McWilliams stated, okay, now you might question well hey why didn’t he put all those numbers on one piece of paper there, it just got too congested, you know and that was his reasoning for it.
President Stimmel asked, does the rest of the Board have this?
Director Weaver stated, yes, should have one.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, is it back here? Okay, all right.
Director Weaver stated, the new survey would have been at your place this evening…
President Stimmel stated, there we go.
Director Weaver stated, along with the letter from the SFLECC.
President Stimmel stated, it looks like this.
Gerald Cartmell stated, yes your behind.
President Stimmel stated, yes, okay, all right. I haven’t found it. Perry where would the parking be, where would you propose that?
Perry McWilliams stated, that um, it would be the far north Dave strategically that’s my greatest area of property you know on that north and so by pushing that garage up would still allow us to be able to have a car, you know parked in that location there. And I know platted right now you guys are going to see the well currently platted on the proposed screened in porch, you know obviously the, that well we’re not going to use anyway and I just don’t feel comfortable with you know I’ll be more than happy to put in a new well you know than to, that’s an unknown, you know and I’m not it’s probably not even very far in the ground at this point.
Dave Scott stated, it appears that the closest corner there is going to be 17’ off the travel portion of 300 E, that’s kind of my concern last time we looked at it, see how far off although…
Charlie Mellon stated, it’s closer on up there farther, corner of the house.
Dave Scott stated, here I think this is the…
Perry McWilliams stated, exactly Dave, yes your right.
Dave Scott stated, it’s pretty tight there but it’s pretty consistent with everything else that’s out there.
Perry McWilliams stated, it just seems like everything in through there, you guys isn’t more than a car length away and I mean in my opinion with what I, you know when you go down there.
President Stimmel asked, Jerry you have anything?
Jerry Thompson stated, nothing, no.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald? Dave? Ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon asked, haven’t got a thing do we?
Jerry Thompson stated, no we don’t we will when we get one.
Director Weaver stated, I’m not used to that stuff.
Charlie Mellon stated, she’s restless.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, of course then I plow through the file and confuse it all for you so it’s not in the right order any more.
President Stimmel stated, thank you.
Director Weaver asked, Perry did you bring your sign back?
Perry McWilliams stated, no, I didn’t yet, Diann.
Director Weaver stated, that’s fine.
Perry McWilliams stated, that’s probably about the best thing on that site right now is that sign, I mean it just looks terrible.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114. The proposal’s setbacks are consistent with the area.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 30’ front setback variance and an 11’ rear setback variance to build a new home (measured from the overhangs) on Lots Number Fifteen (15) and Number Sixteen (16) in Boller’s Lakeview Addition as recorded in Deed Record 126 page 49 of the records of White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Monon Road on the East side of the Big Monon on CR 300 East.
7. That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 2 negative.
President Stimmel stated, okay we have the results of the balloting, 3 yes votes and 2 no. The variance is approved so be sure and get your building permits Perry and bring your sign back.
Perry McWilliams stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, and you’re ready to go.
Perry McWilliams stated, Dave I have just 2 questions.
President Stimmel stated, sure.
Perry McWilliams stated, in regards to a variance I just need clarification. Thank you for approving this first off. I want to improve the site that’s there and I appreciate the vote of approval. How long do I have from this meeting to when I begin a project, you underneath a variance? Is there a time limitation on that variance?
Director Weaver stated, there is no time limitation as long as you build as it was requested.
Perry McWilliams asked, okay if I reduce what I’ve applied for do I need to go back again and resubmit because I want as a builder, I want to have the freedom that after I remove the trailer and do my staking to be confident you know with what I’m building. Not that Mr. Milligan would ever be wrong okay but I want to be confident as a builder with how I’m building, where I’m building and if I’m not comfortable with maybe the screened in porch or the house, if I feel hey I don’t like it, it’s too far, I’m going to, can I reduce what I have from that footprint?
Director Weaver stated, you can build less…
Perry McWilliams stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, but not build more.
Perry McWilliams stated, okay, all right.
Charlie Mellon stated, build less, yes, less and not more.
Perry McWilliams stated, great, great, okay.
****
#2689 Kelvin D. Hughes; The property is located on 3. 71 acres, Part NE NE 20-28-3 located East of Monon at 4776 E. State Road 16.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting a 9’ height variance to build a pole building.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Kelvin Hughes stated, Kelvin D. Hughes.
President Stimmel stated, thank you sir. Is there anything you want to add Mr. Hughes?
Kelvin Hughes stated, what it is, is what it is. I’m trying to put up a pole barn.
President Stimmel stated, all right.
Kelvin Hughes stated, with an 18’ ceiling so it put me up to 25’.
President Stimmel stated, all right. Have you had any neighbors complain about the possibility of doing this?
Director Weaver stated, I think we have letters from the neighbors.
Kelvin Hughes stated, yes, we’ve gotten letters from all the neighbors and they’ve all okayed it so…
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Kelvin Hughes stated, I shouldn’t say property owners, neighbors.
President Stimmel asked, do we need to read those into the minutes, Joe or not?
Kelvin Hughes stated, because there’s no houses out there.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, no, they are in the file.
President Stimmel stated, they are in the file, they’re part of the minutes, part of the record. Okay, is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the variance? Okay. Jerry, anything?
Jerry Thompson stated, nothing other than just a comment to Kelvin. The purpose of the building right is to put your truck inside.
Kelvin Hughes stated, yes to work on my truck, my semi so I can keep upgrades on it.
Jerry Thompson stated, okay.
Kelvin Hughes stated, keep DOT off my tail.
Jerry Thompson asked, you, not that I’m an expert but do you ever foresee hooking on to a grain trailer?
Kelvin Hughes stated, it might be possible.
Jerry Thompson stated, because your building’s not long enough.
Kelvin Hughes stated, it’s not long enough, no.
Jerry Thompson stated, my shops 64 and I’ve got 2 semis and it will fit in there but you got inhale when you shut the door.
Kelvin Hughes stated, it’s not long enough, no.
Angela Hughes stated, this is more or less a garage.
Kelvin Hughes stated, it’s more or less for the tractor.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, one at a time please, one at a time.
Jerry Thompson stated, that’s just a side comment, I’ve known Kelvin a long time. I just, he’s going to put up a nice building and I just…
Angela Hughes stated, when he washes his truck in the winter time he’s got to put it in so it stays nice.
Jerry Thompson stated, I know his stuff stays nice, move on.
President Stimmel asked, all right any other comments Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave? Gerald? Ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, ready to vote, I think we’re already behind, other people are waiting.
Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back?
Kelvin Hughes stated, no, I didn’t. Can she come in tomorrow to get that permit, if it passes?
Director Weaver stated, yes.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the building site is property zoned A-1, Agricultural.
2. That the lot is a lot of record and properly divided.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 9’ height variance to build a pole building on that part of the Northeast Quarter of the Northeast Quarter of Section 2, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Monon Township, White County, Indiana described by:
Commencing at a railroad spike at the Northeast corner of said Section 20; thence North 89 degrees 38 minutes 18 seconds West (Indiana State Plane Coordinate System) along SR 16 and the section line 110.45 feet to the centerline of the Big Monon Ditch and the Point of Beginning; thence South 05 degrees 29 minutes 28 seconds East along said centerline 571.65 feet; thence North 89 degrees 12 minutes 36 seconds West 260.42 feet to a corner post; thence North 00 degrees 31 minutes 44 seconds West 566.79 feet to the section line; thence South 89 degrees 38 minutes 18 seconds East 210.93 feet to the point of beginning, containing 3.071 Acres.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located East of Monon at 4776 E. State Road 16.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.
President Stimmel stated, results of the balloting are 5 votes in favor of the variance so the variance is approved. You need to get your permit.
Kelvin Hughes stated, thank you Dave.
President Stimmel stated, thanks a lot.
****
#2690 Daniel G. & Sheryl L. Reef; The property is located on 1.68 Acres, E/S SW SW 9-27-3 located North of Norway Dam and off of Lake Road 10 E at 3163 N. Hummingbird Court.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 40’ front setback variance to build an addition onto an existing pole barn.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Daniel Reef stated, Daniel Reef.
President Stimmel stated, thank you sir. Is there anything else you want to add to what I just read?
Daniel Reef stated, I think that pretty well says it all unless you have any questions. It’s just the addition to an existing building that has a 14’ sidewall and it’s more or less of a shed building coming off fully enclosed, concrete floor. I’m going to use it as a shop.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon asked, you going on the east side?
Daniel Reef stated, this would be on the west side.
Charlie Mellon stated, the west side okay. I was out there, he’s got plenty of room on both sides and both ends even.
Director Weaver stated, I would like to clarify something the building that is there currently has been built since the Area Plan had jurisdiction in this area and I don’t know exactly what’s happened but I think what has happened is no one realized that this road was, that this was a road beside here and that’s why it was built out of compliance. That’s why I did not note this as no violation on your agenda because I didn’t feel like it was really their fault. It was something that we should of caught in our office and he is been very cooperative in bring this into compliance.
President Stimmel stated, okay. So are we actually then Diann, should we amend the request to bring the existing building into compliance then?
Director Weaver stated, it should be to bring the…
President Stimmel stated, because we’re not only approving the variance for the addition but we’re actually trying, we’re actually bringing the existing building into compliance then.
Director Weaver stated, that is correct.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, we need to add that to the…
President Stimmel stated, so we want to make a, entertain a motion, if that’s what this is, want to do, whatever motion would be to bring the existing building into compliance.
Dave Scott stated, I’ll make that motion.
Charlie Mellon stated, second.
President Stimmel stated, second. All in favor?
Board Members stated, aye.
President Stimmel stated, motion carried. So this is actually going to bring everything into compliance then.
Daniel Reef stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell stated, it’s going to bring that building in.
President Stimmel stated, yes. It’s going to bring that into compliance and permitting for the lean-to part of it, the addition. Okay. Anybody in the audience want to speak for or against the variance? Any fan mail?
Director Weaver stated, no, I have not received any.
President Stimmel asked, Jerry?
Jerry Thompson stated, nothing?
President Stimmel asked, nothing? Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel stated, we’re voting. Gerald? Let’s vote.
Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back?
Daniel Reef stated, I did not. I’ll bring it in tomorrow.
Director Weaver stated, that’s fine.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for 40’ front setback variance to build an addition onto an existing pole barn and to bring the existing barn into compliance on that part of the Southwest Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of Section 9, Township 27 North, Range 3 West, in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, described by:
Commencing at the Northeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Southwest Quarter of the above said Section 9; thence North 88 degrees 31 minutes West 149.5 feet to the point of beginning; thence North 88 degrees 31 minutes West 300.0 feet; thence South 141.4 feet; thence South 11 degrees 45 minutes East 110.92 feet; thence South 88 degrees 81 minutes East 243.31 feet to the point on the nontangent curve, concave to the Southeast having a radius of 40 feet; thence North-easterly along said curve 40.85 feet through a central angle of 58 degrees 31 minutes; thence North 229.30 feet to the point of beginning. Containing 1.68 Acres, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Norway Dam and off of Lake Road 10 E at 3163 N. Hummingbird Court.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.
President Stimmel stated, the results of the voting are 5 in favor of the variance and none opposed. The variance is carried to be approved. You guys just need to get your building permit. Thanks very much.
Daniel Reef stated, thank you very much.
****
#2691 Lakefront Enterprises, LLC; The property is located on Lots 5,6, and Part Lot 4 in Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition, South of Lowes Bridge on the East side of West Shafer Drive, being South of 5313 N. West Shafer Drive.
Violation: None
Request: For Pt Lot 4 – a 30’ front setback variance, an 8’ north side setback variance, a 5’ rear setback variance, a 5270 sq. ft. space variance, and a 10' width variance. For Lot 5 – a 30’ front setback variance, a 2’ north side setback variance, a 7’ rear setback variance, a 4837 sq. ft. space variance, and a 10' width variance. For Lot 6 – a 30’ front setback variance, a 3’ south side setback variance, a 9’ rear setback variance, a 4882 sq. ft. space variance, and a 10' width variance. All to build 1 single family residence on each lot.
President Stimmel asked, and ladies you are?
Heidi Anderson stated, my name is Heidi Anderson and this is my sister Jennifer Frahm and we’re partners in Lakefront Enterprises and I know I met a few of you the other night at the zoning meeting and Jen will just give you a quick background of what we’re trying to do out there with this project.
Jennifer Frahm stated, we bought this property a little over 2 years ago and it was in very bad disrepair and if you’ve driven by you may have noticed that we’ve gotten the cottages up and going into a good and viable business and our overall goal is to really preserve the restaurant and the cottages as great historic businesses and assets to the community.
Heidi Anderson stated, and these variances are so important to the big overall project because we really need this opportunity to develop these water front lots into homes because of the large amount of debt that we’ve incurred to redo the cottages and you know the plans for the restaurant and everything. This is pretty much a very viable project, part of the big overall project that we’re looking to do and let me go ahead and pass this, we’ve got some photos here of what we’ve already committed to and what we’ve already completed in terms of the cottages and you know how these variances will really help us to complete, he was at the meeting. There is some further information in this packet though about the restaurant that you might find interesting. So it all fits together and we think some of the benefits of well we’ll talk about some of the benefits once we get to the restaurant variance which is coming up next, so.
Director Weaver stated, I would like to add that we did receive a letter today by fax in the office and the original is in the file and you do have a copy of that.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Is there anybody in the audience who wants to speak for or against the variance? Evidently not at this point in time I’m going to go ahead and leave this letter in the record because it is against, I believe the granting of the variance and this is addressed to the White County Area Plan Commission on January the 16th of 2008. Received in the office here on the 17th. It states, we are the owners of the property adjacent south of Lots numbered 5,6,10, and part of 4 in Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition, Monon Township whose owners are requesting building variances. We have some concerns and questions which may impact our property (5265 W Shafer Dr). Since our property includes the other part of Lot 4, we are concerned about what is being proposed if anything regarding the utility easement. This easement is recorded on our deed and includes our retaining wall and entrance to our property. We were wondering if Lakefront Enterprises is planning on adding an adjacent/connected retaining wall as the property has a steep decline to the waterline. Where would their parking for the cottage be located as the current elevation would not be adequate space for parking unless the lot is to be filled and a retaining wall constructed. What elevation will the new construction be at? Will there be adequate drainage so as not to have water run off onto our property? We also feel since this will be zoned commercial property, we would like to see a privacy fence built to separate our residential property from the commercial property. We are sure we can work together to achieve their goals and look forward to the renovation of the restaurant and success in their endeavors. Please feel free to contact us with any questions you may have for us. We would like to request a copy of the meeting for our review. Thank you, Gary & Susan Korzik, 246 Meadowbrook Dr. Bolingbrook, IL 60440 and then they list their phone numbers and email address.
Director Weaver stated, after we received this letter, Susan Korzik called the office to make sure that we had received it and I did request to speak to her when she called in because I wanted to clarify to her in one sentence where she is requesting where a sign be placed or a fence be placed on the property due to the fact that it’s zoned commercial. Heidi was at the APC meeting on Monday evening to request that the property be rezoned to residential which is an L-1 zoning since it is on the water and I explained this to Mrs. Korzik so that she would understand that it is for a single family residence and is not going to be commercial use so she understood that when I got done talking to her.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Heidi Anderson stated, and to answer the other questions, I believe we would be putting in a new steel seawall in front of the property and it would be excavated for the parking and everything. The lower level of the residence would be a walkout and really this in no way impacts their property because their actually farther, much farther on to the water, their property is then, ours would be. We’re set way back and their 25’ off of the property line. We’d be another 15’ or so. There would be 40’ between us and their property and their, you know, it wouldn’t block a view, it wouldn’t be a variance needed because we’re building to close to their property. We have 2 adequate parking spaces so, and we’re changing it from a B-2 to an L-1 in order to build this house so it wouldn’t even be commercial so she wouldn’t need to worry about that at all.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Miss Anderson one of the questions I had was I noticed that there is an encroaching walk and lamp on the blueprint.
Heidi Anderson stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, have you received any kind of clearances or approval from the county about the encroachment?
Heidi Anderson stated, you know, its part of the women who wrote in. They have a little ramp kind of down to their residence instead of stairs and that’s part of it right there so I figured if this variance gets granted, we’ll just work with them somehow to resolve that piece of you know, their ramp onto our property and get that resolved amicably.
President Stimmel stated, okay it’s their ramp that encroaches on you.
Heidi Anderson stated, correct.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Heidi Anderson stated, but we would just work with them, together with them to resolve that.
President Stimmel asked, parking for these residences would be where?
Heidi Anderson stated, there will be one space perpendicular to the road right there next to the house where you could see that on lot 4 there’s 15’ there and then the other auto would be parked parallel to the house where the other 15’ is right there so, and same thing with the other lots but there’s more than enough parking for 2 cars on each of these lots. Although it might seem like the lots are a little tight right there these are the only 3 lots really not developed by houses in all of the lots up and down the road right there all have a house on them all ready and they fit just fine with the parking and all.
Jennifer Frahm stated, actually if you look in the packet on page 3 you can see the neighboring properties you can see, again page 3 the bottom 2 pictures. Those basically show our neighbors and how their parking is situated in a very similar situation.
Heidi Anderson stated, right and those buildings are actually much closer to the right-of-way and the road then these 3 buildings would be built.
President Stimmel asked, you don’t think there’d be any danger to the residence of these buildings because of the hill that you’ve got to the south, directly south of lot 4 and the curve that accompanying that?
Heidi Anderson stated, I haven’t, there is a curve coming down when you get to the restaurant right there to the north side of the property and one of the issues there is that they have a nonconforming fence. They have a privacy fence that’s to close to the road and so you can’t see the cars coming down the hill right there but we plan on working with them again also to kind of resolve that and make that a little safer but Shafer is really straight right there in front of our properties. It’s when you go down to the south of lot 4, I’ve pulled out of this area many times, haven’t really had a problem and I’ve never noticed a problem with any cars parking, people park their boat trailers and stuff. All of the neighbors that are to the south side on Shafer there and…
Jennifer Frahm stated, they don’t seem to have any problem.
Heidi Anderson stated, no, they don’t seem…
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Heidi Anderson stated, it’s pretty straight, it might look a little curved in the picture but I feel like its pretty straight right there.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we’ve lived here for a long time. I always thought it was a hazard, myself. When that restaurant was opened before I always hated to go by there afraid somebody’s going to pull out or some kids going to run out in front of me. It’s very tight.
Jerry Thompson stated, um hum.
Jennifer Frahm stated, and that’s why we’re going to encourage parking, it could be on the side of the restaurant, it could be also across the street…
Heidi Anderson stated, he just means the residential not the restaurant parking.
Jennifer Frahm stated, oh okay.
Charlie Mellon asked, are you going to add on to the restaurant?
Heidi Anderson stated, the restaurant building would be existing, the only add on to the restaurant will be a deck on an existing steel structure an exterior deck.
Charlie Mellon stated, that’d be on the east side next to the water.
President Stimmel stated, that’s the next variance Charlie.
Heidi Anderson stated, yes that’ll be the next one we talk about.
President Stimmel stated, we’re just addressing the one variance right now.
Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s the next one.
President Stimmel stated, we’ve got 3 variances.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh okay.
Heidi Anderson stated, right now we’re just talking about the 3 south lots.
Charlie Mellon stated, I’ll wait.
President Stimmel stated, 4, 5, and 6 is all we’re concerned about right now.
Charlie Mellon stated, on the west side okay.
President Stimmel stated, excuse me for that but…
Charlie Mellon stated, that’s fine.
Heidi Anderson stated, so I mean if the parking is a bit of an issue it would be just as much an issue for these 3 houses as it is the other 15 houses down the street, so…
Charlie Mellon stated, okay.
President Stimmel asked, Jerry?
Jerry Thompson stated, I have nothing.
President Stimmel asked, any thoughts?
Jerry Thompson stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, have you been out there?
Jerry Thompson stated, yes I’ve drove by, yes it’s definitely going to be an improvement to the condition that what it was.
Charlie Mellon stated, oh yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Charlie anything else you want to add?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave questions? Gerald? No. Are we ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, let’s vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That objectors were present at the meeting in the form of a written letter.
2. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
3. That the request is for pt Lot 4 – a 30’ front setback variance, and 8’ north side setback variance, a 5’ rear setback variance, and a 5270 sq. ft. space variance. For Lot 5 – a 30’ front setback variance, a 2’ north side setback variance, a 7’ rear setback variance, and a 4837 sq. ft. space variance. For Lot 6 – a 30’ front setback variance, a 3’ south side setback variance, a 9’ rear setback variance, and a 4882 sq. ft. space variance. All to build 1 single family residence on each lot on
Lots Numbered 4, 5, and 6 in Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition, Monon Township, White County, Indiana, as per Plat thereof, recorded in Deed Record 135, Page 360, White County Recorder’s Office.
Except the following described tract: Beginning at the Northwest Corner of Lot 2 of said Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition; thence North 13 degrees East 70 feet; thence South 72 degrees 21 minutes East 50 feet; thence South 21 degrees 35 minutes West 57.3 feet along the West Bank of Lake Shafer; thence South 90 degrees West 42.4 feet to the point of beginning, containing .07 of an acre, and being all of Lot 3 and part of the South side of Lot 4.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located South of Lowes Bridge on the East side of West Shafer Drive, being South of 5313 N. West Shafer Drive.
4. (1) The variance request (is) (is not) a variance from a use district or classifications under are plan law. Vote: 4 is not, 1 is.
5. (2) The granting of this variance (will) (will not) be injurious to the public health, safety, morals and welfare of the community. Vote: 3 will not 2 will.
6. (3) The use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance request (will) (will not) be affected in a substantially adverse manner. Vote 4 will, 1 will not.
7. (4) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance is being applied to a situation that (is) (is not) common to other properties in the same zoning district. Vote: 4 is 1 is not,
8. (5) The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance (will) (will not) result in unusual and unnecessary hardship. Vote: 2 will, 3 will not.
9. (6a) This situation (is) (is not) such that there are exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions applying to the property in question or to the intended use of the property that does not apply generally to other properties or class of uses in the same zoning district. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.
10. (6b) this situation (is) (is not) such that such variance is necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right possessed by other property in the same zoning district and in the vicinity. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.
11. (6c) This situation (is) (is not) such that the authorizing of such variance will be of substantial detriment to adjacent property and will materially impair the purposes of the ordinance of the public interest. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.
12. (6d) This situation (is) (is not) such that the Board specifically fins the condition or situation of the specific piece of property for which the variance is sought is of so typical or recurrent a nature as to make reasonably practicable the formulation of a general regulation, under an amendment of the ordinance, for such conditions or situations. Vote: 1 will, 4will not.
13. That the traffic, curving of the road, density, and parking for this proposal are unresolved problems, among others, necessitating denial.
The variance was denied based on the findings of fact by a vote of 2 for and 3 against. A vote of 3 “for” is necessary to grant a variance.
Dave Stimmel stated, the results of the balloting are 3 votes to deny the variance and 2 votes to approve the variance. The variance is denied.
Heidi Anderson stated, is um, if I could, might be able to ask the Board if there might be someway we could change this so that it would be more in compliance or what the real hesitation with the building the way we’ve got it now that might help us to adequately change the plan. That might be more acceptable.
President Stimmel stated, Heidi, I think in all frankness I think this is appropriate but I think we have other people waiting.
Heidi Anderson stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, we’ve got other 2 variances that we can put this at the end of the meeting and discuss it if you want to. Would that be appropriate?
Heidi Anderson stated, okay.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, Mr. Chairman, I’m not really sure that that is appropriate.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Do we not want to discuss it?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, I say that that’s a matter that you should take up with the staff.
President Stimmel stated, with the staff.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that’s correct because you will see this again if they do that.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, so for the Board to negotiate in affect and attempt to create a curative here, it’s probably inappropriate because it’s a quasi judicial body, you would be asked then to essentially approve what you’ve already you know, kind of helped design.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that would be a matter for them to come and talk to your staff.
President Stimmel stated, to talk to the staff, to talk to Diann.
Heidi Anderson asked, meaning Diann?
President Stimmel stated, Diann yes.
Heidi Anderson stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, and Dave I would assume. Okay?
Heidi Anderson stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, all right.
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, can I give you one little other piece of advice?
Heidi Anderson stated, yes.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, on all these drawings you’d be a lot better off if you were drawing your parking spaces in there to because I think it would make all 5 of these people a lot more…
Heidi Anderson stated, more comfortable knowing where the parking is.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, if they knew exactly where those spaces were on the drawing.
Heidi Anderson stated, okay, we can work on that sir.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
****
#2692 Lakefront Enterprises, LLC; The property is located on Lot 7, 8, and 9 in Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition, South of Lowes Bridge on the East side of West Shafer Drive, being 5313 N. West Shafer Drive.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 34' front setback variance and a 7' rear setback variance to bring the existing restaurant into compliance, a 4' rear setback variance to encroach 10' onto SFLECC's property to build 2 unroofed decks, and a parking variance to allow the existing 6 spaces to encroach into the road right-of-way and to allow 8 additional spaces to be located across the road.
President Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add to this Miss Anderson?
Heidi Anderson stated, the building is existing and the place that is it was built in the 50’s. We would just like, it’s been up and running as a restaurant for many years, we’d just like the opportunity on this one to be able to renovate it and get the building permits to fix it up from the stated that it’s in now and in terms of the decking we have received the consent to encroach and executed that with SFLECC and they’ve agreed to all of that.
Gerald Cartmell asked, do we have a copy of that?
Heidi Anderson stated, I have a copy here.
Dave Scott stated, I think we do have it.
Heidi Anderson stated, it should be in your packet.
Director Weaver stated, Heidi.
Heidi Anderson asked, yes?
Director Weaver stated, I just want to clarify…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, Diann let me make an observation that may either be helpful or not depending on what you do with it. Given the vote on that first petition…
Heidi Anderson stated, um hum.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, the suspicious nature that I have is that the rest of your petitions may very well be in jeopardy also. Under the rules if you get a denial then you cannot bring that same petition back for a year. It might very well be that you might want to step out and talk a little bit about asking if the rest of your petitions be continued until such time as until the next meeting or until you talk to Diann and see if you can work out some of these things because I think you’ve heard this Board already tell you what’s bothering them so you run a risk of making your life a lot more complicated if maybe 30 days would give you some opportunity to repack your case, if you will for a presentation.
Heidi Anderson asked, so if we were to, if the Board basically had a question about the parking spaces and where there at right now and they denied it we couldn’t go back and improve our drawing and everything and bring it back to the next meeting and show where all the parking spaces are?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, no you have to start over. If they vote to deny you have to start over and if you start over you cannot bring the same petition back for a year.
Heidi Anderson asked, the same petition to bring an existing building into compliance?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, you have to change the petition in some material way so that it’s different then the one that got denied.
Heidi Anderson stated, so basically I mean we…Do you want to go outside and talk?
Jennifer Frahm asked, could you take the next person and then just push our next one back and we’ll figure out what we’re going to do?
President Stimmel asked, can we table this for 20 or 30 minutes and give you a chance to discuss this?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, sure you can do that, absolutely.
Jennifer Frahm stated, we’d appreciate that.
Jerry Thompson stated, I wondered that very thing before you mentioned that seriously how critical the first is on the second and the third.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, well that’s similar to what I was going to say also. I wanted her to realize…
Jerry Thompson stated, yes. It could still do…
Heidi Anderson stated, it’s just unfortunate because we’ve put the existing parking in here to hopefully go through this because we’re seasonal business and to be opened by May and to go through this and now have to wait another 30 days even though we have the existing parking and everything that’s across the street, it’s kind of…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, you don’t have to do what I suggested. You can roll your dice with these 5 members.
Heidi Anderson stated, I appreciate your help but…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, I’m just trying to be helpful.
Heidi Anderson stated, okay, I appreciate that, okay.
President Stimmel stated, it won’t hurt to go out and talk about it for 20 minutes or so, okay.
Heidi Anderson stated, thanks.
President Stimmel stated, so we’re going to table that one for about 20 minutes or so, okay. We table 2692 and 2693.
****
#2693 Lakefront Enterprises, LLC; The property is located on Lot 10 in Amos Oak Crest Fourth Addition, South of Lowes Bridge on the East side of West Shafer Drive, being 5313 N. West Shafer Drive.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 29' front setback variance and a 20' rear setback variance and to encroach 2' into the road right-of-way and 6' south side setback variance and a 5203 sq. ft. space variance, a 10' width variance and 1 parking space variance to build a single family residence.
****
#2694 Joseph M. & Karen L. Balka; The property is located on Part SW SE 16-28-03, .17 of an Acre & Pt SW SE 16-28-03, .18 of an Acre, located North of Lowes Bridge, off of West Shafer Drive at 5600 E. Golden Acre Court.
Violation: None
Request: They are requesting a 2’ elevation variance for a pole barn. Our flood ordinance requires the lowest floor elevation to be 658.1’ and they are requesting it to be 656.1’.
President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?
Joe Balka stated, Joe Balka, please.
President Stimmel stated, thank you. Is there anything you want to add Mr. Balka?
Joe Balka stated, the only thing I can add to you want you already have is I do have some pictures of this recent flood and the water was nowhere near where I’m going to put the pole barn.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Joe Balka stated, and supposedly this is supposed the, better than the 100 year or whatever, how they go by the 100 year.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Joe Balka stated, so I do have some pictures.
President Stimmel stated, let me tell you, you submit the pictures we have to keep them to become part of the record.
Joe Balka stated, that’s fine.
President Stimmel stated, thank you.
Joe Balka stated, I don’t have a problem with that. I made my wife take extras.
President Stimmel stated, just start them around that’d be great. Have you been out there Jerry? I was out there. Have you been out there Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, I talked to Mr. Balka, one of the things we did look at, I told Dave and Gerald…
Joe Balka stated, I so have a magnifying glass if you do need because it makes it easier on me to see.
Several Board members are talking at once.
Gerald Cartmell asked, your going behind that?
Joe Balka stated, yes that was the…. Wednesday.
Charlie Mellon stated, to far east of his house.
President Stimmel stated, yes I mean he’s elevated, he’s higher than anybody else more or less in that area.
Several are talking at once.
President Stimmel stated, I don’t know where they came up with this number ever for that area.
Jerry Thompson stated, uh huh.
President Stimmel stated, other people are in way more jeopardy, that’s just my observation.
Jerry Thompson asked, what is it they say, timing’s everything?
President Stimmel stated, yes, no kidding.
Director Weaver stated, I tried to come see you last week. There was no hope of that. I didn’t have a boat.
Joe Balka stated, I didn’t either, I just go slowly.
Director Weaver stated, I was in a car.
President Stimmel stated, the foundations are going to be a real issue after…
Jerry Thompson stated, yes, oh yes, no doubt.
President Stimmel stated, so he had pictures.
Jerry Thompson stated, yes, okay.
President Stimmel stated, so anyway that’s just a comment off to the side.
Gerald Cartmell stated, well I was dead serious that we weren’t going to let you do it. I mean it’s below the, but that water…
Charlie Mellon asked, that yellow house yours?
Gerald Cartmell stated, that water proves it right there.
Joe Balka stated, um beige colored.
Charlie Mellon asked, beige colored house, ain’t that yours?
Joe Balka stated, this house is mine the one that shows the land still in front.
President Stimmel stated, yes, that’s what you thought, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes that’s your garage over here.
Joe Balka stated, you can’t even see my garage from here.
Charlie Mellon stated, it’s behind it, I think.
Joe Balka stated, yes my garage is behind the main part of the building.
President Stimmel stated, that doesn’t look like what I saw from the other side the road.
Jerry Thompson stated, got close enough, didn’t it.
Charlie Mellon stated, that water was across the road.
Joe Balka stated, yes it was across the road.
Charlie Mellon stated, your dry east of you quite of ways.
Joe Balka stated, right, it crossed in front of my existing garage but it never got to the garage itself.
Charlie Mellon stated, but then you haven’t saw that much water in that cornfield for a while, though have you.
Joe Balka stated, well this is the second one I’ve seen where it’s across the water since I’ve owned it.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes, I’m from up in that country, on north of Buffalo.
Joe Balka stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, and I know that area, I knew the guy that used to live in that A frame.
Joe Balka asked, which?
Charlie Mellon stated, down east of you.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, Elliott.
Joe Balka asked, Danny and Sandy?
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Joe Balka stated, okay.
Jerry Thompson stated, I don’t have anything, Dave.
President Stimmel stated, Jerry you got no. Charlie you got anything you want to add?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald? No, ready to vote?
Charlie Mellon stated, he’s high enough as far as I’m concerned.
President Stimmel stated, let’s vote.
Jerry Thompson stated, yes, let’s vote.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the property is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114. Applicant’s pictures of the recent flood proved that this variance was appropriate.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for a 2’ elevation variance for a pole barn. Our flood ordinance requires the lowest floor elevation to be 658.1’ and they are requesting it be 656.1’ on a tract of land out of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of Section 16, Township 28 North, Range 3 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, being described more fully as follows:
Beginning at a point which is South 1 degree and 10 minutes East 796.53 feet South 55 degrees and 47 minutes West 407.86 feet and South 79 degrees and 40 minutes West 10 feet from the Northeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of the above said Section 16 and running thence South 79 degrees and 40 minutes West 70 feet; thence South 17 degrees and 20 minutes East 106.06 feet; thence North 78 degrees East 26.55 feet; thence North 67 degrees East 53.45 feet; thence North 23 degrees and 27 minutes West 95.27 feet to the point of beginning, containing .17 of an acre, more or less.
ALSO; that part of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of Section 16, Township28 North, Range 8 West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana, described by:
Commencing at the Northeast corner of the Southwest Quarter of the Southeast Quarter of the above said Section 16; thence South 01 degree 10 minutes East 796.53 feet; thence South 55 degrees 47 minutes West 407.86 feet; thence South 79 degrees 40 minutes West 80.00 feet to the point of beginning; thence South 79 degrees 40 minutes West 70.00 feet; thence South 11 degrees 54 minutes East 107.63 feet to the Northern Indiana Public Service Company line; thence North 78 degrees East along said line 80.00 feet; thence North 17 degrees 20 minutes West 106.06 feet to the point of beginning, containing eighteen hundredths (.18) of an acre, more or less.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located North of Lowes Bridge, off of West Shafer Drive at 5600 E. Golden Acre Court.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 4 affirmative and 1 negative.
President Stimmel stated, the results of the balloting are 4 votes to grant the elevation difference or the elevation change and 1 vote to deny. The variance is granted.
Joe Balka stated, thank you very much.
President Stimmel stated, you need to get your building permits and…
Joe Balka stated, return my sign.
President Stimmel stated, and return your sign. You know the drill. Thank you Mr. Balka.
****
President Stimmel asked, ladies, do you want to go ahead?
Heidi Anderson stated, yes.
President Stimmel asked, you made a decision? Thank you.
Heidi Anderson stated, we think it would be a better idea if we could table this until the next meeting.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Heidi Anderson stated, for both of the remaining variances, thank you.
President Stimmel stated, all right so you’re requesting to table 9692 and 9693.
Director Weaver stated, 2693.
President Stimmel stated, I’m sorry 2692 and 2693.
Heidi Anderson stated, yes sir.
Charlie Mellon stated, the last of February.
Director Weaver stated, and if they’re going to do a change then you need to meet the cutoff date to get in for the February meeting, if you decide to go on with this we can table it and just automatically go to February, yes.
Jennifer Frahm stated, we’ll probably be making changes to the drawings.
Director Weaver stated, okay.
Jennifer Frahm asked, and we need to resubmit those by what date?
Director Weaver stated, let me see if I have that. Those need to be to us by January 30th.
Heidi Anderson stated, thank you.
President Stimmel asked, and the meeting date is?
Director Weaver stated, the meeting date is February 21st.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Thank you ladies. So they’re tabled.
****
#2695 Marty Martindale; The property is located on Lot 12 in Ganos Camp, Southwest of Lowes Bridge and off of Monon Road at 3584 Bailey Road.
Violation: None
Request: He is requesting an 8’ rear setback variance to build a new home and an attached garage.
President Stimmel asked, and you folks are?
Marty Martindale stated, I’m Marty Martindale.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Marty Martindale stated, she’s my contractor.
Tina Bernacchi stated, I’m Tina Bernacchi, I’m actually only playing the role of providing the home this time. Marty is doing his own general contracting. I’m here for support, any way I can.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Is there anything you want to add Mr. Martindale?
Marty Martindale stated, no pretty much straight forward.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Tina Bernacchi stated, any questions though feel free.
President Stimmel stated, okay. Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak for or against the variance? Steve?
Gerald Cartmell asked, may I ask you a question?
Tina Bernacchi stated, yes.
Gerald Cartmell asked, did you tell him to get a permit?
Tina Bernacchi stated, he has a permit.
Gerald Cartmell stated, no I mean did you tell him.
Tina Bernacchi stated, yes and I was listening to all this and I want to make a clarification because I heard the word modular in the process and I always get permits and I actually picked up Marty’s permits. I will not build a home without personally getting permits.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I wish those people were here. Thank you.
Tina Bernacchi stated, I think though that you see a lot of manufactured housing not getting permits.
Jerry Thompson stated, yes.
Tina Bernacchi stated, so, and modular.
President Stimmel stated, is there, the only question I have I was just wondering if there’s some reason why you couldn’t move it 8’ towards the lake and just not have to get a variance in the first place.
Marty Martindale stated, well if you’re that much close to the lake it seems kind of dangerous for the kids because I’m going to have only about 16’ before the hill. It’s got a big drop off.
President Stimmel stated, right, yes.
Charlie Mellon stated, yes.
Marty Martindale stated, and when my nephews and my nieces are over there and I’m really afraid that if it’s that much closer it might be dangerous for them plus my neighbor to the south it would really block off a lot of his view and he’s been real accommodating as far as cutting down trees and really cleaning up the whole lot. If you’d seen the place before it was really a mess. We did a lot of work to clean it up and I want, I really want to make everybody happy.
President Stimmel stated, from the looks of footer that’s already dug, right?
Marty Martindale stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay I mean that obviously sets back behind the front of his house to the neighbor to the south, I think it is or west, whatever it is.
Tina Bernacchi asked, is that the over dig that you were seeing?
President Stimmel stated, as I’m looking at the lake the neighbor to the right, his house is going to set quite a ways in front of that footer that is dug right now.
Marty Martindale stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Charlie Mellon stated, he’s not going to block anybody’s view.
President Stimmel stated, no that’s why, I guess the reason I was asking that is there any addition to the footer from what I saw there and in other words is there a deck that goes out in front of that in front of that or anything like that.
Marty Martindale stated, no that’ll be another variance. I just want to get established first.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Marty Martindale stated, and then I will get permits for that later on.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Gerald Cartmell asked, what was that again?
Dave Scott stated, so the hardship basically, oh go ahead.
President Stimmel stated, go ahead Gerald.
Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t understand what he said, say that…
Tina Bernacchi stated, he’s not, he basically isn’t sure if he’s going to do a deck or not at this point. His main concern was he had a trailer there at one time. He took that out and he’s wanting to have a home there.
Gerald Cartmell asked, and his decks going to be which way?
Marty Martindale stated, facing the lake.
Gerald Cartmell stated, so now your, what about kids place?
Marty Martindale stated, but, but, excuse me.
Gerald Cartmell stated, didn’t you say you want it that far away from the lake because kids won’t have enough room to play, now your going to put a deck out there.
Marty Martindale stated, well eventually, yes. But I mean right now…
Gerald Cartmell stated, your defeating your purpose.
Marty Martindale stated, well there’s going to be a fence around, once I do put the permit there will be a fence around it.
Charlie Mellon stated, the kids are going to be grown up by then.
Marty Martindale stated, or a railing around but I mean, if I go to close to it I won’t have no room for the deck or a way to walk around it, once there would be one put there.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Dave Scott stated, I guess the hardship would be the contour of the lot, is that what he trying…
Jerry Thompson stated, um hum.
President Stimmel stated, yes, you know, I guess that…There’s some….So Jerry any questions?
Jerry Thompson stated, nothing.
President Stimmel asked, Charlie?
Charlie Mellon stated, no.
President Stimmel asked, Dave?
Dave Scott asked, did, you look at this Dave?
President Stimmel stated, yes I did.
Dave Scott stated, and…
President Stimmel asked, how much space would you say there is between the footer that you’ve got currently dug and where the slope starts right now?
Marty Martindale stated, I would say roughly 16 to 18’ approximately.
President Stimmel stated, okay.
Dave Scott asked, and the, the road that shows on the, is that the actual road or is that a right-of-way?
Marty Martindale stated, that’s a road.
Dave Scott stated, that’s the road.
Marty Martindale stated, there’s a paved road on the garage side and that distance should be approximately 21’ from the road to the garage.
Dave Scott stated, on our survey here it shows it, the closest corner being 12’ so that must be the road right-of-way and not the road itself.
Marty Martindale stated, oh.
Charlie Mellon stated, one side says 15.
Dave Scott stated, yes one side says 15….
Several Board members are talking at once.
Director Weaver stated, Dave if you look at your pictures on the second page.
Dave Scott stated, I couldn’t find my pictures of that.
Charlie Mellon asked, we didn’t find it either, did we?
Jerry Thompson stated, no.
Director Weaver asked, did you find them? Look at the second page. The 2 bottom pictures. See that red flag?
Dave Scott stated, oh okay.
Director Weaver stated, that’s the property line. Correct?
Marty Martindale stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, that’s why I made sure I got that picture.
President Stimmel stated, the observation I made to Dave is looking in that direction, whatever direction that is, is that north?
Director Weaver stated, no I’m looking south, I believe, I believe.
President Stimmel stated, south, there are quite a few structures down there that do come up to be that close to the road etc., etc.
Dave Scott stated, okay.
President Stimmel stated, actually if you look the other way there aren’t. The rest going the other direction most of those buildings are setback well a way from the road. Now the lake widens out further that way too also the property does, the ground. There is quite a bit of difference.
Charlie Mellon stated, I see you got yours already marked.
Director Weaver stated, it really helps when you have your property marked, when you have…
Marty Martindale stated, yes it does.
President Stimmel stated, yes.
Director Weaver stated, it does help.
President Stimmel asked, are you ready to vote?
Board members stated, yes.
Tina Bernacchi stated, I’d just like to say one thing as your doing that, when this all started immediately when Marty knew, found out from Dave Anderson that we were not in accordance to where we should have been everything stopped at that moment and we, you know obviously Marty wanted to do the right thing so, thank god for Dave and thank god for surveys.
The Board finds the following:
1. That the building site is properly zoned L-1, Lake District
2. That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114. The topography of the lot prevents the usual placement of the home.
3. That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.
4. That no objectors were present at the meeting.
5. That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.
6. That the request is for an 8’ rear setback variance to build a new home and an attached garage on Lot Number Twelve (12) in Gano’s Camp, a Subdivision in Section 31, Township 28 North, Range 3 West, White County, Indiana.
COMMON DESCRIPTION: The property is located Southwest of Lowes Bridge and off of Monon Road at 3584 Bailey Road.
7. That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.
The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 3 affirmative and 2 negative.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, 3 to grant, 2 to deny.
President Stimmel stated, yes. 3 votes have been to grant and 2 to deny. So the variance is granted.
Tina Bernacchi stated, thank you very much.
****
President Stimmel stated, get a building permit and you’re on, thank you sir. In other business we had Sharon Malysa, the gal who had the porch that was built out over the, to close to the property line, didn’t get the permit. We fined the contractor as I recall etcetera and she has down the building, violation. She’s torn down that overhang.
Jerry Thompson stated, huh, uh huh.
President Stimmel stated, that’s what we asked, her to do.
Jerry Thompson stated, yes.
President Stimmel stated, and that’s what she’s done. It’s done. Diann was out there today, yesterday…
Director Weaver stated, I was out there yesterday.
President Stimmel asked, Gerald did you see it?
Gerald Cartmell stated, she rebuilt it, I assume it’s the right…
Director Weaver stated, well you know I thought she rebuilt it too and I asked Dave Anderson about it and I guess it had siding on it so they just took the siding off. That’s why it’s back to bare wood.
Gerald Cartmell stated, okay, so it’s now, it’s legal.
Director Weaver stated, that’s exactly I thought too, I thought they tore it off and rebuilt it but…
Gerald Cartmell stated, now it’s legal.
President Stimmel asked, so now it’s legal?
Director Weaver stated, it is legal, Dave…
Gerald Cartmell asked, do they have a building permit?
Director Weaver stated, she has applied for her permit.
Gerald Cartmell stated, okay.
Director Weaver stated, she was in today and has applied for the permit, yes.
Jerry Thompson stated, that darn Gerald, he’s a stickler for details, isn’t he?
Gerald Cartmell stated, trying to save my county money.
President Stimmel stated, you know just in this situation we have this information but Diann and I talked about this on the phone, one of many phone calls we’ve made amongst ourselves today but you know I told you I didn’t see there was any reason for her to show up or if she become in compliance there was no sense in hassling her anymore.
Jerry Thompson stated, right.
Gerald Cartmell stated, we didn’t hassle her, she broke the law.
President Stimmel stated, well I understand. Poor choice of words.
Gerald Cartmell stated, come on, okay.
President Stimmel asked, is there any other business? Mr. Burton?
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, the only reason I stopped by is obviously the county’s changed over the last 2 weeks and we’re reacting instead of already knowing what, in my, from the Commissioners side and I have talked to, I’ve been having trouble catching up with John. Our concern right now and a lot of it’s through Dave Anderson is the flooding situation, our responsibilities to DNR and then the big word compliance. And I don’t know whether this is going to involve this Board or not. I haven’t had time, I apologize Diann I haven’t had time to get in and talk to you everything’s happened so fast the last 2 days. Do you think it will be an issue?
Director Weaver stated, well I mentioned this earlier to Mr. Bumbleburg to ask him, he is from Tippecanoe County and I asked him how Tippecanoe handled that. And I only think that Dave and I heard his reply so maybe he wants to repeat that.
President Stimmel asked, do we want this on the record, does it matter?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, it doesn’t make any difference.
President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, I suggested that our building commissioner in Tippecanoe County right now is starting to get very, very uneasy because of the, several homes that are likely to be noncompliant to begin with that are in the floodway and will not meet the standard of where they have, what is it 50% or whatever it is, I forget of rebuild and he’s going to have to go out probably on some of those and condemn those houses. He’s not going to enjoy that very much and right they’re struggling with this and I spoke to one of our commissioners last night and she understands that it’s a very difficult situation to go out and tell somebody whose lived there for 35 or 40 years that they can’t rebuild their house and I don’t know that they have really come to a real conclusion on it but what I suggested was that Dave Anderson might very well want to go down and spend an hour or 2 with Ron Highland in Tippecanoe County and talk to him about it because he also had this problem what, in the last flood, 2 years ago, 3 years ago and the, and I’m not really sure I understand how they resolved it. They were trying to acquire some funds from FEMA to literally buy some of those people out. I don’t know whether they every got that money or not but that’s where they were headed was to try to get a grant and funds to buy them out and, so these people would not be truly harmed. But Highland would be the, if you will the knowledgeable guy and I would think it would be worth a call or a visit.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, where I’m coming from and again I’m very early in trying to understand this is that if we’re going to try to make them compliant and they’re to close to a boundary line but their willing to raise the property and meet DNR.
Jerry Thompson stated, requirements.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, but yet we may have to go through a 45 or even longer amount of time and maybe their not, maybe they may not be rebuilding by that time but if they can’t do anything prior to that because they have to come in a deal with a, I was to close to the boundary to start with and go through this Board to become compliant verses we grandfathered them in they’re just going to keep the same footprint. If they go out of their footprint then yes.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, they may not have to come before this Board though.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, okay that’s my question.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, they may not have to come before this Board because indeed if they can comply with the Zoning Ordinance and lift the building up the 2’ or whatever then there is no reason for this Board to act. I mean if they meet the Ordinance…
President Stimmel asked, but is your question Steve that it is the 50%?
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, it’s got to see a small there.
Director Weaver stated, other than our Ordinance states that a grandfather structure, cannot be improved more than 50%.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, and that’s and there…
Director Weaver stated, and that’s the catch.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, and that’s the catch, yes.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, that’s the only reason, I’m just trying to bring about the discussion because it’s going to be 30 days before, before you set again.
President Stimmel stated, he’s not a threat, thank you very much. I didn’t want to keep you any longer than…I don’t think Mrs. Bumbleburg is either. I should have said something earlier. Sorry for the interruption.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, this is to quick and I, Dianne’s probably the same way and Mr. Bumbleburg, you know it’s happened so fast people are so upset and they’re going to get crankier.
Dave Scott asked, are you trying to say if my house is out here and it was flood damaged that, let’s assume that it’s on a small lot and it’s not meeting the setbacks but I want to rebuild, would you like to have it so that if they build on the same footprint even if they’re not meeting the setbacks that Diann can go ahead and issue a permit?
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, I don’t know whether you can, this Board, see from the Commissioners side, I’m hoping we can deal with this in the Ordinance under this specific situation that if this house, I don’t know how close I’m being correct or not. I haven’t run this by council so.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, your doing okay so far.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, okay, that you can be specific because I’m not sure again whether these people need to come before this Board or not but I’m just suggesting that if they do to try to help them out and maybe save 30 days that if they meet DNR which is going to put them 6’ above normal water level and it showed in the pictures, I’m sure you’ve seen Dave’s that yes everybody that was compliant was what 6, 8” above water level and you know they were fine verses the houses that were down and we’re going to fall into this, okay let’s make them water compliant but if they didn’t get a setback someplace and they have to come back before this Board, I know that’s…
Dave Scott asked, if they’re on the same footprint does anybody see a problem with letting them go on the same footprint just…
Director Weaver stated, our Ordinance does.
President Stimmel stated, our Ordinance, yes.
Director Weaver stated, our Ordinance…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, only because of this technical requirement that you cannot replace that if the damage is more than 50% of the valuation.
Dave Scott stated, I understand that but can we make a motion or something in the spirit of the county to…
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, you can’t.
Dave Scott stated, we can’t do that.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, you can’t do that now the County Commissioners can change that part of the Ordinance.
Director Weaver asked, is that what it’s going to take is an amendment to the Ordinance?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, probably would take an amendment to the Ordinance.
Director Weaver stated, that’s what I thought.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, to get rid of that 50% or whatever that is.
Dave Scott stated, they don’t want it across the board, maybe they like that rule normally.
Director Weaver stated, well but they could change it to state for flood damage only or something of that nature.
Dave Scott stated, for flood victims.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, that’s a big question for me and obviously Council needs to answer that is can we make that Ordinance and would be very specific about time period and who has encompassed that and you know I don’t know what we would get into it in Monon or not.
Dave Scott stated, well see there it is, there’s no flood plain inside the city limits.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, but you’re going to have house damage.
Dave Scott stated, we got houses damaged and the guy can go back in and build them right back where he’s got them now and they don’t address flood areas inside the city limits and I hope that changes because we had 3 brand new houses built and our town board probably would not have not let them built that if they would have had to come to them for approval but it comes over to Area Plan and they get a permit and the board doesn’t even know he’s building.
County Commissioner Steve Burton asked, are you comfortable with what I’m talking about?
Charlie Mellon stated, they built before in Monon on the same footprint haven’t they?
President Stimmel stated, Charlie just a second, Charlie.
Director Weaver stated, oh I think its fine but…
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, right and that’s my reason for being here is to try to talk to this board because I think it directly falls within your, and I don’t want to go off and do something and make you feel like, you know.
President Stimmel asked, am I hearing Steve that it may not, is that what I’m hearing?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, well you’ve got 2 kinds of houses out there. You’ve got the conforming, the nonconforming house that can be repaired for less than the magic percent, in which case that house, I would think they could come in and they could get their building permit and rebuild, then you got the other guy though whose house is damaged 65% and then the question is what do you do with him and he falls clearly within the framework of the ordinance and I don’t think this board, well you might be able to vary that. I haven’t given that a long thought. You might be able to vary that 50% but it strikes me as being a lot easier if the County Commissioners just simply change the 50% because then you guys get entangled in all of the technicalities of the variance issues and that may just be, you know a lot time spent spinning your wheels. The other problem they’ve got is, of course of I listened to the flood people down in Tippecanoe they’d start talking about if you bend these rules to much then you loose your certification for flood insurance, don’t you?
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, well see we’ve got to work with DNR.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, yes.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, DNR’s, to the people we have assessment.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, good luck.
Dave Scott asked, what if a guy’s in the flood area and he’s only got 30% damage? Can the county make him rebuild?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, I think the answer is I don’t think you can.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, right now the, from talking to Dave and I’m qualified here is I know nothing to be dangerous but not enough to be brave that that’s not an issue with us if 50% of us because DNR has already said we don’t to deal with them. Now where I think we’ll be okay with DNR is there only concern with water heights are flood and they don’t really care about setbacks. You know that’s not concern of theirs.
Director Weaver stated, that’s right.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, so we’re going hopefully, I’m going to understand better. Dave’s obviously way ahead of where I am and I’m sure Diann is too. I want to work on this fast. We don’t have to do it tonight but I’m trying to float this by you to get ideas and let you know where we are as far as trying to make them conform on setbacks if the Commissioners, and again I’m only one of one of the Commissioners so if we satisfy DNR’s requirement whatever it may be is, can we work with these people that are affected on what our Ordinance says?
Director Weaver stated, the thing that puts a bug in this, I think is this, if we have to amend the Ordinance it goes to the Area Plan Commission, that’s where it has to start and our cut off for their February meeting is Monday. So we’re really up against a time frame if we want to get it in place to be heard by then in February.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, if the other thing, council is obviously on the commissioners side. We can advertise a special meeting. Is that possible?
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, sure.
County Commissioner Steve Burton stated, and I hope, I hope the people involved would understand why we would do this and put you through anything if it comes to that point. It’s not my passion but we’ve got, you know we’ve got a hundred year flood. This is the very unusual circumstances and I don’t think we’re going to set a precedence. My hope is nobody will perceive this as a precedence that we’ve done this and we will do this on an every day basis. And my intent would be to be very specific about who this can or cannot affect.
President Stimmel asked, generally when make an ordinance, amend an ordinance like that can you put a finite time line on it, 90 days, 6 months, something like that?
Attorney Bumbleburg asked, you mean kind of self destruct clause?
President Stimmel stated, yes kind of self destruct clause.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, yes I think you can.
President Stimmel stated, so that it expires after a certain point of time.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, yes I think you could do that. There’s a graphics issue of DNR and what they want to do and the Federal flood insurance and on the other side of both of those issues you have a whole raft of people who think that the whole floodway issue is just the biggest farce in the world to begin with and that someplace between those 2 positions there’s some truth. And so the, you got to be careful that you don’t amend your ordinance on the flood insurance issue and then but you’ve got to give some of these people who have been there forever, you got to, you know fairness requires you to figure out some solution to them but the system is designed to amortize out of the floodway all of those people.
Dave Scott stated, or put a line up.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, no in the floodway put them out, flood plain and floodway fringe get them high enough but in a floodway there gone.
President Stimmel stated, that’s the idea.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that’s the idea.
President Stimmel stated, all be darned.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, that’s the idea. Tippecanoe just rewrote their flood ordinance and I haven’t even looked at it because I have, it just doesn’t strike me right now as something that I have the stomach for. But they just rewrote it and they have had a gal who has been doing this who used to be on the staff who is now in Michigan someplace with her husband but has stayed as a consultant and rewritten this whole ordinance so there’s a, Chris Kraut did this and so there, they make, again you know pay you to go down there and visit with Sally and her crew because they are at least kind of knowledgeable in this world because flood plain and floodway and floodway fringe has been kind of high on their list the last year or two.
President Stimmel stated, okay move to adjourn.
Director Weaver stated, I do have one thing.
President Stimmel stated, oh I’m sorry.
Director Weaver stated, I’ve provided you guys with a copy of a letter that I received from George Holmes today by fax. I thought you might want to review it. Just an update I have not responded to it. I did not have a chance to respond to it just so you know he is still working on it so, he is working on it. And I did give you copies of some properties where we’ve dealt with elevation variances and some of them have before and after pictures. I just thought you might want to review those. So, we don’t really need to discuss them I just thought you might be interested. That’s all I have.
President Stimmel stated, move to adjourn.
Jerry Thompson stated, thank you.
President Stimmel stated, thank you Joe so much.
Attorney Bumbleburg stated, glad to do it.
Jerry Thompson made motion to adjourn.
The meeting adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
David Scott, Secretary
Diann Weaver, Director
White County Area Plan Commission
Document Prepared By: __White County Area Plan, _______________________________________________
“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”
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