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The White County Board of Zoning Appeals met on Thursday, September 18, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. in the Commissioners’ Meeting Room, Second Floor, County Building, Monticello, Indiana.

Members attending were:  Gerald Cartmell, David Scott, Charles Mellon, Jerry Thompson and David Stimmel.  Also attending were Attorney Jerry Altman and Director Diann Weaver.

Visitors attending were:  Ron & Regina Berryman, Carol Trentlage, Al Bunch, Howard & Kathryn Clark, Steve Parrish, W. Dean Cook, Michelle Rogers, Sandra & Richard Suray, Edyie Shepardson, and Robert Little.

The meeting was called to order by President David Stimmel and roll call was taken.  Dave Scott made a motion to dispense with reading and approve the minutes of the, August 21, 2008 meeting.  Motion was seconded by and carried unanimously.  Attorney Altman swore in all Board members and audience members. 

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#2738     W. Dean & Marcia Cook; The property is located on 1.164 acres, on Part NE NE 22-27-03, located East of State Road 39 on C.R. 175 North before C.R. 725 East.  Tabled from July 17, 2008 and August 21, 2008.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting a 54’ front setback variance to build a new pole building.

President Stimmel asked, and Mr. Cook is there anything you want to add to that?

Dean Cook stated, no I think the last time there was a typo on the deed and that’s been corrected since and refilled.

President Stimmel asked, okay, that’s the paper that I’ve got?

Dean Cook stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, relevant to the affidavit from Mr. Christopher, I believe.

Dean Cook stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  Dean can you tell me just for my own information, I mean how does that change the boundary, or does it?

Dean Cook stated, well I think it was 80, it was supposed to be 89 degrees, 8 minutes and it was the, they dropped the 9 so it was 8 degrees, 8 minutes so basically it didn’t change anything, it was right on the survey it was just wrong on the deed.

President Stimmel stated, on the legal description.

Dean Cook stated, um hum, yes.

President Stimmel stated, okay, okay.  Is there anything we’ve received for this Diann?

Director Weaver stated, we haven’t received anything additional since the last meeting but at the last meeting we had received the information from Mr. Little.

President Stimmel stated, okay. 

Director Weaver stated, and I believe you have a copy of that attached to your staff report.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Director Weaver stated, I have had our attorney review this information for this evening.

President Stimmel stated, I said I had it, maybe I don’t from Mr. Little.

Director Weaver stated, you should have a letter.

President Stimmel stated, no.

Director Weaver stated, you don’t have a letter.

President Stimmel stated, I do not believe I have it Diann.  Hang on here.  All right Board do you have any questions for Mr. Cook?  Okay Dean I guess that’s it for right now.  Anybody in the audience have any comments or opposition or speak in favor of the variance?  Have a seat Dean, sorry, thanks.

Attorney Little stated, my name is Bob Little, I’m the attorney for Steven Parrish who is an adjoining property owner and who’s objected previously to their request for this variance.  I submitted some material, the material I submitted included the original, I should back track a little bit, I think at the July meeting there was some question of an easement or right-of-way through the property where the proposed barn would lay was raised by Steve Parrish and it was tabled to check into that at the last meeting the material that you have in front of you included a deed that was presented showing that the deed to the Cook property had an incorrect legal description that resulted in the fact that if you followed what the deed said the barn was not in that area.  I understand that an affidavit scrivener’s error has been filed and may have been recorded at the courthouse, I assume that it has which would extensively take care of that error which would mean the Cook’s do own the property where they’re trying to do it which still leaves a question of is there any type of easement through there or not.  I thought I had submitted with that letter but apparently did not a copy of the deeds to Steve Parrish and the survey.  I’d like to offer that to Mr. Altman at this time.  Mr. Parrish received 2 deeds, one covering half of the property, a ½ interest in the property from his mothers trust and one covering a ½ interest of the property from his fathers trust.  Both of those deeds at the very bottom of the legal description is about half way down on page 2, make reference to easement for Pike Creek along with that is a survey of the property that makes reference right prior to the signature of Mr. Milligan of the easement of Pike Creek.  The unfortunate thing abut it is there’s not a very good description of what this easement for Pike Creek is Mr. Parrish believes that the intent through out this is the continuation of the right-of-way grant that’s included in the file on down to and through till it gets to Pike Creek because that’s where Pike Creek is.  If that’s the case the variance that the Cooks have requested would be putting a barn right in the middle of where it is.  I realize that this body doesn’t decide legal questions or ownership questions even particularly.  Uh, I do know that I would represent to you that Steve Parrish is considering further action to correct what they think is a second error in the deed to correct the error of the omission of the reference of the Pike Creek language and by omission from the deed, I’m refereeing to the deed to the Cooks.  So I do think there’s still some legal question as to whether or not this barn can be or should be placed where an easement area is where access to the creek would be.  The, still leaves a couple merit questions they on the merits, Mr. Parrish believes that the lay of the property, the way the ground was set up originally is a series of homes going along there in continuation of that plat, or that plan on down would take it on down to Pike Creek, Mr., I would represent that Mr. Parrish would say to you that that was the intention in the plan all along that this is a continuation of a series of houses to be developed in that areas.  We may have some subdivision rules they’re going to have to comply with now that didn’t exist in the 50’s and the 60’s when this plan was started but if your going to look at how it affects neighboring properties and how the proposed variance would even affect the way the property is being used, I think you have to give at least consideration to the prospect of the interference that this would have to stick a big barn right at the end of the roadway that’s there as I understand the request this barns going to be sitting 6’ from the gateway that leads into this granted easement that nobody questions that exists.  Um, on that basis we think even on the merits there isn’t really a good reason to put or to permit the variance so that this barn can be placed there.  Finally I don’t think, or Mr. Parrish I guess I should say would like the Board to consider what hardship this is really creating on the Cooks if they’re not allowed to place the barn where they want to, it was my understanding from the presentation before that the only hardship would be they would have to remove some trees that would lie to, that’d be the right of the barn as your going toward it from the roadway as opposed to any serious hardship on them.  On that basis even if you would decide to consider the merits of the variance Mr. Parrish would hope that you would reject the request.

President Stimmel stated, thank you very much.  Any questions from the Board?

Attorney Altman stated, I guess the documents I just received are not what I looked at before and was submitted to me before.  Um, it, the one deed does have, well both deeds I think have, the, the language and I think it’s the same this conveyance is made subject to all easements, no, no excuse me I’m in the wrong paragraph.  The paragraph above that, the above described parcel being subject to the right-of-way for County Road 174 North, an easement for Pike Creek and other easements of record pertaining to this parcel.  Um, and it’s in, both of the deeds, I don’t know exactly what that means I’m speaking to the Board right now.

President Stimmel stated, um hum.

Attorney Altman stated, uh, because I’ve just seen this document right now, it, these documents I should, there are 2 trustee deeds dated the 21st of April 2004 and yea both of them are the 21st of April 2004.  Uh, there are 2 Mr. Steven R. Parrish and then also received a survey that um, certainly looks like it applies or may apply to the real estate of Mr. Cook’s or it shows it on there.  Again I’m not exactly sure because I’ve not had a chance to study before um, you’d ask me Gerald as to whether there was any thing relative to Mr. Cooks property and what I’ve seen before that had any effect on Mr. Cook and ownership or control the use of it and until I saw these documents my answer was no I didn’t, looking at these documents, I’m just not sure I haven’t, I need to study them.

Gerald Cartmell stated, you need to study and research, I suppose.

Attorney Altman stated, yea I certainly do.

Gerald Cartmell asked, so we’re going to have to table it again, is that what we’re going to have to do?  I don’t know how we can make a ruling when we don’t…

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t know either honestly.

Gerald Cartmell stated, we really don’t have…

President Stimmel stated, Dean I’ve got a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind.

Attorney Altman stated, that doesn’t mean we can’t take questions but as far as this, I don’t have an answer.

President Stimmel stated, and it’s probably a stupid question but why, I mean the, the way that lot looks is not rectangular or…

Dean Cook stated, no it’s not.

President Stimmel asked, I mean why in heaven’s name is it that way, is that because of the ravine back there?

Dean Cook stated, because of the ravine.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Dean Cook stated, when we wanted to buy it we, the request was made, we wanted to go clear down to the base of the creek, or little stream down there so that’s what off of our existing property, we bought it in 2001, that property there.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  So the owner of this little triangular piece here is still the owner here right?

Dean Cook stated, yes.

President Stimmel asked, on this aerial photograph?

Dean Cook stated, um hum.

President Stimmel asked, is it the same owner as over here, Parrish?

Dean Cook stated, I think so I can’t see it from here but…

President Stimmel stated, yea.

Dean Cook stated, you know.

President Stimmel stated, it just seems a little unusual I guess, and if I read, if I look at this aerial photograph I mean it looks like there is, I mean the easement does go back at least to the end of the road, does it not, I would assume.

Attorney Altman stated, from what I can see if certainly does go back to and just within 6’ of the proposed barn that he’s asking for.

President Stimmel stated, so my question for Mr. Little then would be then your contention is that the easement actually goes back to Pike Creek right Bob?

Attorney Little stated, yes we believe that that was the intent there is no documentation we show this specifically says it right through the Cook property…

President Stimmel stated, right.

Attorney Little stated, all we have is the, the deed that was submitted tonight and the granted right-of-way from the previous submission.

President Stimmel stated, so the easements that you’ve mentioned in the deeds that you’ve submitted, the 2 mentions of easements are the only mentions of the easements are the, and I just scanned through it quickly here just what the last 3 lines here?

Attorney Little stated, yes just the last line as I indicated as I was speaking that that’s very vague as far as where it is, it’s, it really does become some what of a legal question as to what does that mean, where are they at and so forth and I’m not sure either Mr. Altman or I with more time would be able to tell what they mean about where the easement actually lies or if there is one that goes through the Cooks.  I do know that Mr. Parrish would when given the opportunity in a courtroom testify that there was supposed to have been one there and that there was an error in the deed when it was left out and we already know there was an error in the deed to begin with as far as the legal description goes.  We have references to the easement on the property immediately to the, I guess that’s to the north of the Cook property and expressly granted a recorded right-of-way to the south, out to the county road.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Dave Scott stated, but Dean’s got a deed and it doesn’t have an easement, not certified but it doesn’t have an easement, his deed does not show an easement across there which means there either isn’t one or it didn’t get recorded and either case he bought his land thinking there’s no easement across it. 

Attorney Altman stated, the only thing it does say is this conveyance is made subject to all easements on the deed but it doesn’t describe them on the deed.

Dave Scott asked, if there was an easement though wouldn’t it, wouldn’t there be a description of it somewhere?

Attorney Altman stated, the better practice would certainly be yes.  The better practice would certainly be yes.

Dave Scott stated, I would think this would have to be on his deed or, or it wouldn’t be, if I bought a piece of property and I want to build a house on it and somebody told me there was an easement running through there and I went over here to the title company and they said there wasn’t any evidence of one.

Attorney Altman stated, I guess the other thing would be with easements uh, you sometimes are they can burden real estate and not be described or surveyed out or if you look at the real estate and I think this is big to what Mr. Little’s alluding to although, he hasn’t mentioned any physical facts or evidence of use that there is on Mr. Cooks ground.

Dave Scott stated, and my other point would be the easement that is on there is described and it is…

Attorney Altman stated, well it’s not described, it’s in fact not part of his ground.  It’s just a separate tract of ground.

Dave Scott stated, exactly so if that easement was to go clear back to, it would be identified I would think.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s an excellent point, lawyers are want to not necessarily stop it right there but it’s an excellent point to me Mr. Scott.

President Stimmel stated, Dean I have to ask you the question and that is that you know, if the variance were approved and you built the pole barn and Mr. Parrish and Mr. Little were successful in proving that there was an easement would you then have to, I mean I’m assuming that you would then have to vacate or move that pole barn.

Dean Cook stated, I would assume that.

President Stimmel stated, that would be a risk your taking, I guess I’m saying you know that going in but if, that if they do pursue that which I don’t know that they will or not but you run that risk.  That’s the only reason I’m bringing it up.

Dean Cook stated, correct.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Dave Scott stated, another question I’m asking, who owns that property directly west of this property.  I see there’s a home there.

Dean Cook stated, Dewey Schnepp.

Gerald Cartmell stated, Dewey Schnepp he used to be a bus drive for Twin Lakes.

Dave Scott asked, okay does he have any objection to any of this?  Have you heard?

Director Weaver stated, I haven’t heard anything.

Gerald Cartmell stated, Dewey could care less about anything.

Dean Cook stated, I could for what it’s worth I have talked to Mr. Schnepp by telephone he apparently has owned that property for 40 years, what he told me was that he’d always been told by Mr. Parrish there is a 40’ right-of-way back to the creek that belongs to all of us but he’d never seen any paperwork to establish that.

Charlie Mellon stated, um hum.

Dean Cook stated, that was his contribution to what it was I didn’t specifically ask whether he was in favor of or against the variance so I don’t know.  I don’t want to pretend to say that he’s against it but that was his report.

President Stimmel asked, Dean how would you enter your pole building, would you enter it from the…

Dean Cook stated, right straight in.

President Stimmel asked, from the easement?

Dean Cook stated, from the easement, yes.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  I think Mr. Little would, it’s not in the sense that there’s a legal question about whether the easements exist here regardless of what we do on the variance. 

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right.

President Stimmel stated, if we grant the variance, if we grant the variance and Mr. Cook decides to do whatever he wants to do, he’s got the variance, he builds the thing the easement’s discovered, he’s got to move the building that’s tough luck.  That’s no concern of ours quite frankly, that really isn’t all ours is just whether we want to go, want to allow him to have his building 6’ from that line instead of 60’.

Shaker Hites stated, may be better for him to just move the building a little bit.

Charlie Mellon asked, well there’s no room on the east side though is there Dean?

Gerald Cartmell asked, you ain’t got enough room?

Dean Cook stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, how does the Board want to proceed?

Attorney Altman asked, is that a motion that calls for a question?

President Stimmel asked, you want to vote, okay.  Charlie how do you feel, are you ready to proceed or do you want to think about tabling it or…

Charlie Mellon stated, well I was out there and at the end where everything’s growd up there’s big trees in that right-of-way if you say it is a 40’ right-of-way.  There’s big trees in there and for anybody to get back and cross that creek, is there any of their ground across the creek, Steve?

Steve Parrish stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, we can’t hear you from back there Steve I’m sorry.

Steve Parrish stated, yea it’s like 7 acres back there across the creek.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea.  They could take them trees out and build a bridge across the creek and still farm that in the back end, not farm it but graze it I suppose its in trees and pasture and stuff like that.

President Stimmel asked, so you want to vote Charlie or not?

Charlie Mellon stated, yea, I’m ready to vote if you’re asking me.

President Stimmel asked, Gerald you want to vote?

Gerald Cartmell stated, I guess, I don’t know what to do, I’m kind of, I was all set until the new stuff comes up and then you know, I don’t feel comfortable, I don’t think we have all the answers yet, I mean, until Jerry researches that a little bit.

Attorney Altman stated, the problem is I expect Mr. Little’s right that…

Gerald Cartmell stated, I want to be fair to both of them.

Attorney Altman stated, after looking at it, it really doesn’t locate the easement and I don’t see, in other words a document Mr. Little gave which I marked exhibit, objectors exhibit A, B, and C.  Don’t locate the easement at all beyond this piece of ground therefore, I don’t know that I’m going to find anything else by looking at this therefore I expect you, you’ve seen just about all your going to see in the way of paper evidence about that easement.

President Stimmel stated, I think we can, my opinion is Gerald that we can vote on this easement or not on the easement, I’m sorry, on the setback or on the variance because that’s, that’s the only thing we’re asked to vote on.  We can’t do a thing about the easement all we’re concerned about it is rather he’s, can be within 6’ of that property line and if we want to allow that, it’s really what it amounts to and if, and the risks inherent with that either with the easement or Mr. Parrish’s and Mr. Little’s issue but again they’re going to have to deal with that with Mr. Cook.

Gerald Cartmell stated, okay just say it goes through and Mr. Parrish finds that it is there…

President Stimmel stated, right.

Gerald Cartmell stated, and he’s already got his building built, like he said he’s…

President Stimmel stated, tough luck.

Gerald Cartmell stated, bad day for him huh.

President Stimmel stated, yea but, but that, at least in my opinion it doesn’t have a thing to do with us, quite frankly.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I guess it wouldn’t, would it.

Charlie Mellon asked, your building wouldn’t be big enough by moving it over huh, Dean?  You want it a certain size?

President Stimmel stated, yea.

Charlie Mellon asked, it’d be too small to move over?

Dean Cook stated, yes, yes it has to be that size.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea, okay.

President Stimmel stated, that’s not the question we’re being asked to resolve.

Gerald Cartmell stated he’s just requesting a front setback to build a new pole building.

President Stimmel stated, yes.

Gerald Cartmell asked, how do we get in these messes?

President Stimmel stated, I don’t know.

Attorney Altman stated, we don’t get in them they bring them to us.

President Stimmel stated, all right, okay.  I think, I think we’re ready to vote.  I think Charlie’s ready to vote and I’m ready to vote, Dave’s ready to vote.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I don’t have to vote yet, I just, I don’t know.

President Stimmel stated, that’s all right.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I mean I’m not against it, if you guys want to vote that’s fine but I just, I don’t know.

President Stimmel stated, all right.  What would help you?

Gerald Cartmell asked, Jerry can you elaborate anymore on the…

Attorney Altman stated, I don’t think there’s anything else that, there may be, there may be an easement there but it’s not in writing and I don’t think that there’s any other evidence to bring before you.

President Stimmel stated, that’s why you get the big bucks Gerald.

Gerald Cartmell stated, yea.  This is pretty hard to vote, these are both my friends.

President Stimmel stated, I know, I understand, I understand.  All right I think I’m ready to vote, let’s vote.  There’s no more comments.

Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back?

Dean Cook stated, no, I did not.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the vote on petition #2738, 4 votes cast, the vote is 2 in favor of the variance being granted, 2 in favor of the variance being denied.  The matter is tabled to the next vote by the Board.

Charlie Mellon stated, we should of waited on Jerry.

President Stimmel stated, well I thought he’d be here.  Dean one of the things and I think Mr. Little I think one of the things we could of done to have had 5 members here quite frankly was to and I think we’ve done this before would have been to moved the variance to the back of the pack, couldn’t we Diann, in retrospect we could of, we would have had 5 members here then and I’m not saying that would of made a difference in one way or another, I don’t know but it obviously would have been 3 to 2 one way or the other, probably so, and I apologize I probably should of said that up front and given you that opportunity because that should have been there but right now it’s tabled Dean.

Dean Cook stated, sure.

President Stimmel stated, so we’re on to the next month.

Attorney Altman asked, and that will be when Diann?

Director Weaver stated, in October.

Attorney Altman stated, oh really.

Gerald Cartmell stated, that’s pretty good.

Director Weaver stated, October 16th.

President Stimmel stated, Mr. Little, Bob, I’m not trying to pry into anybody’s private affairs but will there be an effort on your part then to establish the validity of that, that easement in the next 30 days or not or if anything?

Attorney Little stated, we’ve been discussing doing something formal through litigation on that, we haven’t decided whether to do it or not.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Attorney Little stated, it probably wouldn’t be resolved in 30 days even if we did.

President Stimmel stated, okay, okay all right, thanks a lot Bob.  I apologize.  Hi Jerry thanks for coming. 

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#2746     Donna J. Dallinger; The property is located on 1 Acre Out NW cor NE NE 30-27-03, located West of Monticello off of County Road 100 N. at 3804 E. 100 N.  Tabled from August 21, 2008.

Violation:    None
Request:    She is requesting an 11’ front setback variance and an 83’ rear setback variance to build a room addition onto the existing home.

President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

Vernie Criswell stated, Vernie Criswell, representing Donna.

President Stimmel stated, thank you.

Gerald Cartmell stated, and your 30 days late.

Vernie Criswell stated, yea, senior moment.

Gerald Cartmell stated, you’re not even old yet.

Vernie Criswell stated, oh I know it.

President Stimmel stated, all right.  Is there anything you can add to what I’ve read?

Vernie Criswell stated, no.

President Stimmel stated, can I ask why this was tabled from the last meeting.

Director Weaver stated, nobody showed up.

Vernie Criswell stated, miscommunication, I thought Donna was coming, she thought I was coming, she calls the next morning, did we get it through, I said uh, anyway.

President Stimmel stated, okay, that explains it.

Vernie Criswell stated, continued from June, when we was supposed to build.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  Did we get any paperwork on this?

Director Weaver stated, no.  I don’t have anything else you haven’t had.

President Stimmel asked, anybody in the audience want to speak for or against the variance?  Up to the Board.

Charlie Mellon stated, I was out there a month ago before the last time, it looks like she’s got plenty of room out there, everything’s squared up, got plenty of acreage, looks good.

President Stimmel asked, okay any questions from the Board?

Dave Scott asked, just for the record your not actually coming any closer to the county road then just…

Vernie Criswell stated, no we’re just extending east and west, parallel with the highway.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, the access easement that I see there…

Vernie Criswell stated, there’s 2 houses in behind it, there’s a small gravel road that goes back to the buildings behind.

President Stimmel stated, okay, gotcha. 

Vernie Criswell stated, I don’t know that it was ever established into a subdivision or anything like that, I think it was all A-1 at one time.

President Stimmel asked, any questions, questions, ready to vote?  Ready to vote?

Jerry Thompson stated, oh there’s Doc over there.

Director Weaver asked, did you bring your sign back?

Vernie Criswell stated, I don’t know whether she did or not, I thought she brought it back last month.  If she didn’t we’ll get it in.

Director Weaver stated, she may have but we may have told her to take it back out.

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.  There is a small gravel road with little use.

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for an 11’ front setback variance and a 83’ rear setback variance to build a room addition onto the existing home on A tract of land out of the Northwest Corner of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Thirty (30), Township Twenty-seven (27) North, Range Three (3) West in Union Township, White County, Indiana, and described more fully as follows:
Beginning at a point which is the Northwest Corner of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the above said Section Thirty (30) and running thence North Ninety Degrees East (N 90° E) along the centerline of a public highway Three Hundred Eighty Two (382) feet; thence South One Degree and Thirty Minutes East (S 1° 30’ E) One Hundred Fourteen and Two Tenths (114.2) feet; thence South Ninety Degrees West (S 90° W) Three Hundred Eighty Two (382) feet; thence North One degree and Thirty Minutes West (N 1° 30’ W) One Hundred Fourteen and Two Tenths (114.2) feet to the point of beginning, containing One (1) acre, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  Property is located West of Monticello off of County Road 100 N. at 3804 E. 100 N.

7.    That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the vote on petition #2746, 5 votes cast, 5 votes vote the variance is hereby granted.  You need to get a building permit before you proceed.

****

#2748     Monticello Fraternal Order of Police #123 – Owner;  Happy Tails Animal Care Center - Applicant; The property is located on 5.0 Acres Out NE NE 16-28-03, on the Southwest corner of State Road 16 and West Shafer Drive at 8954 West Shafer Drive.  Tabled from September 4, 2008.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting a Special Exception to allow for a kennel for a no kill shelter.

President Stimmel asked, and is someone representing them?

Anna Kimberly stated, I’m Anna Kimberly, President.  This is my Vice President Michelle Rogers.

President Stimmel stated, thank you.  Anything you can to what we’ve read?

Anna Kimberly stated, no only if you have any questions that might be concerns.

President Stimmel stated, okay, can somebody here again please tell me the reason this one’s tabled from last month.

Gerald Cartmell stated, not enough information.

Director Weaver stated, the Board requested.

Jerry Thompson stated, but here’s the, I think the sticky on this is um, not to put it on one person, Doc had the most concerns.  Is he allowed to have a part in this tonight?

Attorney Altman stated, sure is, sure is.

Jerry Thompson stated, okay.

President Stimmel stated, he can testify, sure.

Attorney Altman stated, yea, testify you bet.

President Stimmel stated, I guess I’ll turn it over to him, he had several good questions that he asked so.

Shaker Hites stated, well the questions that I had that evening, the most important one to me if we allowed this variance for a kennel there and if this organization passes for what ever reason how do we control that change in the zoning so that it doesn’t end up a professional kennel or a puppy breeding facility or whatever else might fall into this.

President Stimmel stated, well I’m going to speak from what I think I understand and Diann you correct me please if I’m wrong but what we’ve talked about in the past Shaker is been the fact that, that when those variances we, those special exceptions I should say we’ve granted before have gone, not with the property but with the applicant, right.

Director Weaver stated, we have done that before yes.

President Stimmel stated, in other words we can specify that that this special exception stays with the applicant and if the applicant goes belly up that’s it.

Shaker Hites stated, and I think, and I think what went on down there I think elaborate on that is that the applicant is a corporation and can the corporation be bought out or change hands, change directors, the applicant isn’t a particular person and I think they send research back and tell us…

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, yea and you certainly have a real, real issue there because 2 things, obviously these ladies are before us tonight and they’re representing capacity and they were not trying to tell us that they’ll be the only president or secretary that this body will ever have but that we certainly have because it’ll change with time but to get the control we’re talking about it is very difficult when your dealing with a corporate name because what you just said, it, uh, the ownership doesn’t necessarily have to change it’s just who owns it that will change and that could be a very significant problem and expand to an entity that we wouldn’t be happy with.

President Stimmel stated, but that to me Jerry, that would be no different then if we grant a variance to a corporation out here manufacturing farm chemicals and all of a sudden they decide they’re going to manufacture dynamite instead.  I mean you know, the bottom line…

Attorney Altman stated, but this is a special…

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, but I guess what I’m saying is that what the difference is to me is that there’s, there’s a, you know, there are covenants with in or what we’ve agreed upon in a special exception or a variance that state 10 dogs, 10 cats, a no kill facility etcetera, etcetera In other words there are bullet points we can tract and if they, turns into a breeding facility or something like this it’s violating the exception or the…

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, or variance is that correct?

Attorney Altman stated, that’s right it’s just that they were concerned abut ownership also, Dave and…

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, above and beyond the control of the use and the real problem is, is there just very hard to control the ownership.

Dave Scott stated, and maybe we don’t care about the ownership as long as who ever owns it follows what the variance request is.

Attorney Altman stated, the special exception.

Anna Kimberly stated, uh huh.

Dave Scott stated, or the special exception is, is it’s a no kill.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Dave Scott stated, they follow the same rules of this exception what the request requested.

Attorney Altman stated, yep.

President Stimmel stated, I would ask Shaker is there anything that you would add in the way of rules or covenants that we might want to include in this to make it more restrictive.

Shaker Hites stated, the other questions that I had was the next one as you’ve already approached the density of population and they have said that their limits right now, and I hope you think that’s right because I support this idea, these are things that I’m thinking of, I mean these ladies and I have met privately before and I support this idea but from our point of view I think and the communities point of view that density and population is the next thing that comes to my mind and what they have stated as I understand it is not that they intend to live in it, 10 dogs and 10 cats but that’s what they’re eventually of doing right now.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

Shaker Hites stated, I don’t see and I certainly know from my experience with the county that 10 dogs and 10 cats at a time will not address our problem.

Anna Kimberly stated, um hum.

Shaker Hites stated, and so if we attempt to address our problem it will entail many more animals than that and I assume they intend to attempt to address this problem.

Anna Kimberly stated, um hum.

Shaker Hites stated, and which leads us to density of population…

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Shaker Hites stated, and real consideration.

President Stimmel stated, I’m going to ask you another, this is a weird question what would you suspect would be the potential density.

Shaker Hites stated, oh my, well let me tell you, because right now I take care of the majority of the county’s stray population and this could, this dissipate of course really but to try to make it really short, number 1 we don’t control the animal, the stray animal population in White County by any means.

Anna Kimberly stated, um hum.

Shaker Hites stated, number 2, I suppose the average between 3 and 5 animals a week at my clinic and I’m not the only person that takes the animals.  I keep animals 3 days, try to find it a home, majority of them are euthanized.  If you are going to take animals with their point of view which is to identify, rehabilitate, and find permanent homes for them, your talking about long term care for their, I know you know these things but before you can rehabilitate, make healthy, spay, neuter and find a home for it we’re talking long term, maybe they can put a number on that, I can’t.  I know you can’t do it in 3 days, that part I can tell you so how long is each animal, what’s the turn over rate going to be…

Anna Kimberly stated, nobody knows.

Shaker Hites stated, the only thing I can tell you is that there are almost no government subsides or supported wide spread organizations that attempt to accomplish that, Tippecanoe County, Jasper County, Indianapolis, Marion County, they’re all kill shelters because they can’t do that, they can’t address that turn over, they can’t provide housing for that number of animals, get them in a home.  So the people that are no kill shelters have to kennel a very small and select portion of the animals that are, that are out there.  The animals that can find homes and animals that they can get out.

President Stimmel stated, and that was going to lead to my next question and that was the fact that it sounds like we’re talking about 2 different approaches to it, in other words those that are adoptable and those that eventually, you know…

Shaker Hites stated, and you know all that leads to a screening and whose choice is this, I mean those questions go on and on.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes, we’ve…

Shaker Hites stated, you can’t answer them here but…

President Stimmel stated, but the question…

Shaker Hites stated, the bottom line is there’s no answers.

President Stimmel stated, right but the question is for them is then is are they, you know, I guess, I’m paraphrasing I know but is, are you prepared to address volume issues in other words is there a density issue that your looking at down the road is it going to be a 150 dogs and cats in 2 years or something like that your requesting.

Anna Kimberly stated, well right now at the time we’re finically strapped, we’re getting donations in, we’re trying to get grants to buy what we have, 10 kennels for dogs, we’re wanting to get money for the cat kennels.  Maybe down the line once we start, once we start getting up and running and seeing how much estimated animals we do receive, we do get in, adopt out, we’re on 5 acres, you know we might want to down the line build on to the property we have the room to build on and to bring in more animals to house.

Michelle Rogers stated, and we have talked to Kyle about down the line maybe purchasing that, the property but that all comes with time, just you know like everything else so we don’t, haven’t sat down and figured out what we could do in 5 years, it’s just all kind of as…

Anna Kimberly stated, day by day.

Michelle Rogers stated, day, you know maybe year by year you know to see how well it goes and how fast we can, once we get up and running I think things will got much smoother of course.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Shaker Hites asked, would your idea be to always take the maximum number of animals you could financially handle?

Anna Kimberly and Michelle Rogers stated, yes. 

Michelle Rogers stated, I mean once the money comes flying in if we can get it that way sure.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, as I recall we had audience members opposed to this variance the last time we granted it or this special exception, when we did this before.  Do you remember that Dave or Jerry?  It was a year and a half ago or something…

Charlie Mellon stated, more then that.

Anna Kimberly stated, no it’s been I think in 2003, I think when they did, when the previous board members had this.

Michelle Rogers stated, it was that long ago.

Shaker Hites stated, another thing that they did mention and that we discussed that evening was that they expected to be able to find specific guidelines from the state as far as ventilation, square feet, housing, and I asked them that evening and they said that they hadn’t been able to find those guidelines and I suggested that they were going to find them very difficult to find.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Shaker Hites stated, and so I think that in addition to numbers that we would, that I would need, or I would like to see what the plan is for ventilation for waste disposal or housing.

Anna Kimberly stated, and…

Michelle Rogers stated, that should have been in some of the items that you received and you were looking for.

Shaker Hites stated, no I did read those in detail.

Anna Kimberly stated, I wrote a letter of intent that gave great detail on the disposal, the ventilation, um, the…

Michelle Rogers stated, yea, I can’t remember what all else that you asked for.

Anna Kimberly stated, of the number of animals, um, that we identified the products we’d be using for clean up.

Michelle Rogers stated, cleaning and sanitizing, yea.

President Stimmel stated, okay, Charlie go ahead.

Charlie Mellon stated, they’ve done a lot of work since our last meeting.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

Charlie Mellon stated, because of all this literature we got here.

Michelle Rogers stated, um hum.

Charlie Mellon stated, 6 or 8 pages, 10 pages of it and one I was just wondering if you had contacted any commissioner or councilmen to see if you could get on a line item on the budget.  The budgets not finished yet.

Anna Kimberly stated, I’ve tried, they won’t put on the budget, um, we went to the commissioners.

Charlie Mellon stated, I know you did that one time before our last meeting.

Anna Kimberly, yea and…

Michelle Rogers stated, right and she went back since.

Anna Kimberly stated, I went back and I contacted the secretary to ask them if they looked over our proposal and she basically told me that they, if they don’t call you then they’re not going to put you in the budget so they told me to have the vets write them a letter saying um,…

Michelle Rogers stated, that they are willing to help us.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea so we want to um, we’re doing a petition for White County residence to sign to show the Commissioners that we do need this, um, we’re going to have a booth out there at the Brookston Popcorn Festival and we’re wanting White County residents to sign it to show the Commissioners that it’s needed.

Michelle Rogers stated, it’s needed and want it in our area and obviously Dr. Hites feels that way.

Charlie Mellon stated, I read today where the state has extended that budget till December the 1st to…

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

Anna Kimberly stated, okay.

Charlie Mellon stated, see so that’ll give you more time to…

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

Anna Kimberly stated, December 1st…

Charlie Mellon stated, get something done.

Anna Kimberly stated, we’re talking, when you were saying something about the being building we’ve contacted different um, places, Pella window came out from South Bend to donate the windows and the doors.  They might donate the windows and the doors for Happy Tails because the windows and doors are the original and…

Michelle Rogers stated, to the building.

Anna Kimberly stated, to the building, so we’re trying.

Michelle Rogers stated, and Pedigree um, we have contacted Pedigree, Pedigree is looking to hopefully donate $50,000 to um, to help us to get going, keep us in whatever we need.  Um the drains are started in the building itself.  We need the health department in to okay those before they’re finished, before we can get them totally finished.

Charlie Mellon asked, did you ever contact any of the neighbors?

Anna Kimberly stated, um, no not yet but the neighbors seem really nice.

Charlie Mellon stated, if you could find out who the neighbors were was against it before for a couple of them was for it they probably know some of them people they might be moved out of the country but…

Michelle Rogers stated, yea.

Charlie Mellon stated, you know.

Anna Kimberly stated, the signs been up there and you know people stop by as we’re there…

Michelle Rogers stated, we’re there on Sundays, we had a lady about a mile and a half down the road say you know your doing a good job, we’ve watched you.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea the building and everything looks good.

Anna Kimberly stated, um hum.

Michelle Rogers stated, so hopefully we’re on the right tract with it.

President Stimmel asked, anybody in the audience that has any comments one way or the other to give testimony, okay.  Jerry?

Jerry Thompson asked, Diann have you received word from anyone?

Director Weaver stated, no, I have not.

Jerry Thompson stated, okay.  I have nothing else.

President Stimmel asked, Dave?

Dave Scott stated, I just wondered who, if they bring in a dog and he’s sick, take him to the vet, or do, and then if you keep a dog for 2 months and you can’t find a home for him, what do you do with him, I mean do you have some kind of an exit plan?

Michelle Rogers stated, I think our plan is we went to Cass County, spent some time with her, she’s wonderful, she’s done the business for a long time and I think part of it is we’ve talked about maybe helping each other interact because she has that sometimes that problem unfortunately she euthanized her animals.  Um so I think maybe we can maybe interact and change positions with each other unfortunately she has a problem with parvo out brakes over there because they come directly to her.  That’s why we want to stay within the county, let them come to Dr. Hites, let him, you know this is why we want them to come from the county that way they can still go through him, he can check them out, make sure they’re adoptable animals before they come to us.  If they have a disease or an issue then that way it’s not coming to us and out breaking our facility like she has.

Dave Scott asked, is this something that’ll happen to all the dogs, they’ll go through one of the vets before they come to you?

Michelle Rogers stated, and that’s the way we’d like to keep it, yes.

Anna Kimberly stated, that’s actually how it is not, animal control, the city and the county goes through…

Michelle Rogers stated, animal control and they go to the vets in the county.

Dave Scott asked, so then after the 3 days…

Shaker Hites stated, there’s been no…

Michelle Rogers stated, there’s been to, no, no…

Anna Kimberly stated, no talk but that’s…

Michelle Rogers stated, no permanent talk of how we’re going, we haven’t, you know.

Shaker Hites stated, it sounds like a reasonable thing to be thinking about that we haven’t discussed that…

Michelle Rogers stated, no.

Shaker Hites stated, and the county hasn’t signed on to it by any means.

Michelle Rogers and Anna Kimberly stated, no.

Shaker Hites stated, and the county’s kind of pulling my string real hard about the finances.

President Stimmel asked, Shaker another question would be what, I mean when it comes to disease and things like this I mean surly there’s an incubation period isn’t there.

Shaker Hites stated, 3 days is highly adequate, so.

President Stimmel stated, that’s what I was wondering I mean do you have to keep them longer then that to be able to know that you’re bringing disease into…

Shaker Hites stated, well your talking about a lot more financial questions here I mean your talking about testing, of course.

President Stimmel stated, yep.

Michelle Rogers stated, right.

Anna Kimberly stated, uh huh.

Shaker Hites stated, you know I want a bare minimum that the county brings to me, I can spend no money, I can spend no county money on, I mean every animal that the county brings me I treat for fleas because I don’t want them in my clinic.

President Stimmel stated, yea.

Anna Kimberly and Michelle Rogers stated, uh huh.

Shaker Hites stated, and I don’t charge for that, every animal that comes into me if it’s obviously a risk to the, I mean I run a business, if it’s a risk to the other animals in my clinic they get euthanized right away, if it’s a recognizable risk, some risks aren’t recognizable sadly, that’s a risk I’m taking you know some veterinarians won’t take strays because of that and so these are all things that you have to take I mean seriously and be probably not probably a lot more hard hearted about our assessment of that some people could be because of my other basic signal.  We haven’t talked anything about what they’re suggesting.  They’re suggestions are good but they’re going to cost a fair amount of money to have animals evaluated by a vet and then turned over to whatever they might go so that’s certainly a consideration and a prerogative I don’t think.  And I did look over, I didn’t recognize the page that, that’s pointed out to me here as far as what I’m talking about are specific numbers about ventilation and square feet about housing and you know.

Anna Kimberly stated, okay.

Attorney Altman asked, aren’t there any standards such as that?

Shaker Hites stated, there are lots of different standards, aren’t state standards that I know of like the American Association of Small Animal Practitioners the petitioners have those things I’m sure that probably you belong to the humane society but I’m sure they have those kinds of standards, I mean I’m sure you can find lots of different standards then you got to weigh what standard can I deal with.

Anna Kimberly asked, can I say something?

President Stimmel stated, sure.

Anna Kimberly stated, I actually contacted the Indiana State of Animal Control and they say there’s no, you know Indiana does not have any rules stating you know because we looked into it, we searched for months to you know because we wanted to make sure that once we get this up and running and like Shaker Hites said you know that some states have rulings on how many feet a dog should be in, the ventilation but Indiana does not have no set grounds on you know ventilation or how or where you know the animals should be kept.

Michelle Rogers stated, because we didn’t want to do it and turn around and be, have to do it again you know.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, I can understand what you’re saying and I guess personally from my point of view I mean I would think that there are a lot of states that have animal control programs and I would think that there would be some standards that they’ve adopted for the construction of this facilities…

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, including air flow, square footages, etcetera, etcetera, I would think that would be relativity easy to find.

Anna Kimberly stated, I contacted both the county, or both the animal control and I asked them if they knew of any you know um, I called the health department even asking for if they had any…

Shaker Hites stated, I don’t think you’re going to find those standards there but if you really want to find those standards I can, there are professional architects that specialize in animal housing.

Anna Kimberly stated, um hum.

Shaker Hites stated, and I can get you names of those kind of architectural firms and I don’t know that they’ll do it for nothing but they may at least give you some guidelines about…

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

Shaker Hites stated, there’s people architectural firms that specialize in building veterinary clinics.  They come in and they tell you what you need here.

Dave Scott asked, how many do we have to come down to, I mean we’ve asked them a lot of questions, some of them answered, some of them aren’t answered, uh, I’m sitting here thinking how to vote because some things haven’t been answered but I know for sure they’re going to have the answers for them until after there, I guess I’m going to, what specifically do we need to have as a commitment so that we can vote and feel fairly safe that we’ve got everything covered I guess um, or do we have enough, do we have enough to make a determination?

President Stimmel stated, well my 2 cents worth Dave is that if we do anything tonight that we, that we do limit to what they’re proposing as a, instead of a maximum number of animals at our capacity at this time I’m uncomfortable with that wording in a sense that that leaves open the door for more and I would say for this variance for my perspective I’d rather see it limited to 10 cats and 10 dogs and then if they need to go bigger then that then they’re going to have to go through the variance procedure again and we’ll at least hopefully at that point in time prove, or at have some kind of a tract record that they’ve been able to handle that, now I’m not saying there’s any magic number there maybe it’s 8 or 9 or 15 but I’m just, that’s the number they’ve put out so…

Dave Scott asked, are you comfortable with that, did you say 10 cats and 10 dogs?

Anna Kimberly stated, yea…

President Stimmel stated, that’s what they’ve laid out as a letter of intent.

Anna Kimberly stated, that’s what we’ve labeled so far, that’s our beginning number so…

President Stimmel asked, yea, that’s just me Jerry what do you think?

Jerry Thompson stated, it’s a starting point, it doesn’t sound like very many to me but yet it’s a place to start so.

Attorney Altman stated, it can be a lot of noise.

Michelle Rogers stated, and we’re trying to prêt rue that somehow, some kind of wall type thing.

Jerry Thompson stated, I think they’re trying to hard to go through the right courts here.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree Jerry I just am saying is I think the deal is they’ve got, like everybody else you got to crawl before you walk.
Jerry Thompson stated, yes.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

Attorney Altman stated, and I think it’s a start and if they can handle that then maybe come back.

Michelle Rogers stated, um hum, we’re willing to do that.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes, we are.

Attorney Altman stated, but I think that limiting as to capacity is one thing, I think it also ought to be limited that they in fact take care of the noise, the door, and ventilation.  At least consistent with the usual requirements so that the animals are healthy and they peak when they are healthy and I think that ought to also be a control involved in this.

President Stimmel stated, well I think that, I mean that’s nice to say but that’s like you know it’s like an elevator fan trying to be you know so it’s not to noisy I mean unless you set adjustable kind of like this.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Attorney Altman stated, I agree with you but it give you something Dave, gives you something.

President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.

Dave Scott stated, well you know if they’re not running a good operation and they try to come back for more we’ll know.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, there you go.

Michelle Rogers stated, that’s true.

President Stimmel asked, Gerald, you ready to vote, okay Charlie ready to vote.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea.

Attorney Altman stated, and they have set forth a schematic here showing the plan of the proposal not only in the survey but also in a document that shows a mark received 9-8-08 that gives dimensions and is going to be covered and some specifications on that.

President Stimmel asked, so you’re saying you want that before?

Attorney Altman stated, I’m just saying is that’s part of their…

President Stimmel stated, we have it, okay.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, and I, the thing I want to make a record is I’m going to put on my ballot that they are limited to 10 cats and 10 dogs.

Attorney Altman stated, exactly.

President Stimmel stated, specifically.

Anna Kimberly stated, okay.

Jerry Thompson stated, it’s not an open thing.  Dave hold up a second if you don’t mind, it’s not a big deal but I do have a question.  Will Doc be allowed to vote on this Jerry?

Charlie Mellon stated, no.

Attorney Altman stated, yes, oh Doc, no.

President Stimmel stated, no, okay.

Attorney Altman stated, unfortunately.

Jerry Thompson stated, okay just curious, it’s not that I didn’t want the president to vote, I was just curious.

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.  The use is limited to 10 dogs and 10 cats and no breeding, build per specifications of their site improvement survey for a Special Exception prepared by James Milligan as well as they’re document that we received 9-8-08 which shows the standards as to the kennels and how they’re constructed and I also refer to their document that they call a letter of intent and this specifically says that animals will be attended to 7 days a week, 6 days will be open for adoptive purposes and educational services, noise factor will be a minimum during those days when dogs are outside they will be monitored constantly for noise issues and animal protection.  Night noise should be also minimal due to animal being housed inside.  Animals will be walked by Board members involved here, there’s only noise will only be when we’re entering the building, hours of operation are to be determined

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for a Special Exception to allow for a kennel for a no kill shelter, Happy Tails on A tract of land out of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Sixteen (16), Township Twenty-eight (28) North, Range Three (3) West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana and described more fully as follows:
Beginning at a point which is the Northeast Corner of the North east Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the above said Section Sixteen (16) and running thence North Eighty-nine Degrees and Fifteen Minutes West (N 89° 15’ W) Four Hundred Twelve and Five Tenths (412.5) feet; thence south zero Degrees East (S 0° E) Five Hundred Twenty-eight (528) feet; thence South Eighty-nine Degrees and Fifteen Minutes East (S 89° 15’ E) Four Hundred Twelve and Five Tenths (412.5) feet; thence North zero Degrees East (N 0° E) Five Hundred Twenty-eight (528) feet to the point of beginning, containing Five (5) Acres, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  The property is located on the Northwest corner of State Road 16 and West Shafer Drive at 8954 West Shafer Drive.

7.    (1)    The special land use shall be and is designed, constructed, operated and maintained in a manner harmonious with the character of adjacent property and the surrounding area.

(2)    The special land use shall not and does not inappropriately change the essential character of the surrounding area.

(3)    The special land use shall not and does not interfere with the general enjoyment of adjacent property.

(4)    The special land use shall and does represent an improvement to the use or character of the property under consideration and the surrounding area in general, yet also be in keeping with the natural environment of the site.

(5)    The special land use shall not be and is not hazardous to the adjacent property, or involve uses, activities, materials or equipment which will be detrimental to the health, safety, or welfare of persons or property through the excessive production of traffic, noise, smoke, odor, fumes, or glare.

(6)    The special land use shall and is be adequately served by essential public facilities and services, or it shall be demonstrated that the person responsible for the proposed special land use shall be able to continually provide adequately for the services and facilities deemed essential to the special use under consideration.

(7)    The special land use shall not and does not place demands on public services and facilities in excess of available capacity.

(8)    The special land use shall be and is consistent with the intent and purpose of this Ordinance, and the objectives of any currently adopted White County Development Plan.  

The special exception was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results on the balloting on application #2748, okay before I begin that I, they have put in to this application some self limiting standards, if you will and I refer again to their site improvement survey for a Special Exception prepared by James Milligan as well as they’re document that we received 9-8-08 which shows the standards as to the kennels and how they’re constructed and I also refer to their document that they call a letter of intent and this specifically says that animals will be attended to 7 days a week, 6 days will be open for adoptive purposes and educational services, noise factor will be a minimum during those days when dogs are outside they will be monitored constantly for noise issues and animal protection.  Night noise should be also minimal due to animal being housed inside.  Animals will be walked by Board members involved here, there’s only noise will only be when we’re entering the building, hours of operation are to be determined, the maximum number of animals and their capacity will be 10 dogs and 10 cats maximum and that is a limitation on this Special Exception.  Any questions on that? 

President Stimmel asked, how was the vote?

Attorney Altman stated, okay I’m going to do that here but I just wanted to make sure that they didn’t have any questions on that because that…

Gerald Cartmell stated, your burning daylight here.

Attorney Altman stated, I know then the vote was 5 votes cast, 5 votes vote the Special Exception should be granted as limited.

President Stimmel stated, thanks Jerry, I apologize for interrupting.

Attorney Altman stated, no problem, no problem.

****

#2749     Monticello Fraternal Order of Police #123– Owner;  Happy Tails Animal Care Center - Applicant; The property is located on 5.0 Acres Out NE NE 16-28-03, on the Southwest corner of State Road 16 and West Shafer Drive at 8954 West Shafer Drive.  Tabled from September 4, 2008.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting a 2’ height variance to allow a 6’ chain link fence in the front yard for a kennel.

Michelle Rogers stated, which that’s not correct.

President Stimmel stated, it is not correct.

Michelle Rogers stated, no.
Anna Kimberly stated, no it’s perimeter.

President Stimmel asked, it’s a perimeter fence?

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

Michelle Rogers stated, a perimeter fence.

Anna Kimberly stated, you should have a document with this surveyor did that surrounds the building.

Director Weaver stated, well, let me clarify.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, the request is for the front yard because that’s the part that needs the variance.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay but it’s not for a kennel.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Michelle Rogers stated, but it’s not for a kennel.  The kennel is going to be in the back.

Director Weaver stated, a chain link fence in the front yard for a kennel meaning the use.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay, okay.

Anna Kimberly stated, oh okay.

Director Weaver stated, not that that’s the kennel it’s for the use of the property.

Anna Kimberly stated, okay that’s, that’s what…

Michelle Rogers stated, oh okay sorry.

Director Weaver stated, that’s okay, that’s okay.

President Stimmel stated, well according to the diagram it does, it’s certain, goes around the property.

Michelle Rogers stated, right.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, all right.
Anna Kimberly stated, we wanted to do that because the neighbors do have chickens that cross the road and play in the yard and our husbands mow so they play chicken with the chickens when they are mowing so we didn’t want to have any casualties.

Michelle Rogers stated, just another safety issue, you know.

President Stimmel asked, but there is no intent to have the animals running in that chain link fence, they’ll be in the kennel?

Anna Kimberly stated, only if somebody’s attended with them just for play purposes.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  Any questions?

Shaker Hites stated, I do have some questions and comments.

President Stimmel stated, yes.

Shaker Hites stated, number 1 I was asked about the height and I do believe that if, if they’re going to have a fence they need a 6’ fence.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Shaker Hites stated, as you and I both know if you’re going to stop a dog for a brief period of time, 6’ will do it and as I told them last time they need to put tops on their kennels too because of if a dogs got time 6’ wont’ do it.

President Stimmel stated, that’s right.

Anna Kimberly stated, yes.

Shaker Hites stated, but for the, but for a perimeter fence 6’ is great but 4’ isn’t.  My suggestion to you for 2 reasons, 1 financially it’ll cost you a lot less, a 6’ fence is expensive and 2 because I think a 6’ perimeter fence has a real industrial or even correctional look to it.

Michelle Rogers stated, yea it does.

Shaker Hites stated, and I think I’d try to get away from that and you did, I think you made a little more emphasis last month on the idea that you wanted to be able to allow the dogs to play in this area.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Shaker Hites stated, and I think that’s a fine idea if you’ve got long term dogs kenneled they need to have some room to stretch.  I don’t think you need 5 acres and I think that for the looks from the community for your pocketbook, for all of those concerns having a double fence is necessary to keep the animals away from the edge of your, you know that but why don’t you think about drawing it in and just fence in an acre or an acre and a half or get it back off the perimeter so that it doesn’t have that look to the neighbors and you still got plenty of room to let dogs play and…

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Shaker Hites stated, and keep the chickens away from the dogs.

Michelle Rogers stated, the thing of that is the previous Board members had told those neighbors that they would do that.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea that…

Michelle Rogers stated, that they would perimeter fence that property.

Shaker Hites, though you ought, I would think you could satisfy their concerns if you kept their animals away from your animals and your animals away from their animals.

President Stimmel stated, I think the perimeter fence is just a matter of, it’s just a smaller perimeter is what Shaker’s talking about.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

Jerry Thompson stated, yea.

Michelle Rogers stated, we could go for that, I mean we’d love to do that money wise.

President Stimmel asked, have you priced it, I mean I’m just curious have you priced what it would cost to do what you proposed?

Michelle Rogers stated, we’ve put, not actually but you know we know what it’s going to be but we have put out some word out to fencing companies hopefully for donation wise. 

President Stimmel stated, yea, okay.

Michelle Rogers stated, you know so because it’s…

President Stimmel stated, okay, sorry to interrupt Shaker, you had some more.

Shaker Hites stated, no I mean that’s my 2 big points is when I think they need a fence like that, number 2 I think it’d be better for you and the community if you have one that big.

Anna Kimberly and Michelle Rogers stated, yea.

Michelle Rogers stated, we would prefer it that way ourselves.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea but that was just to satisfy the, you know, the neighbors because the previous board wanted you know, said that they would do this.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Anna Kimberly stated, so we figured we would…

Michelle Rogers stated, we would try to follow through with that because there was, you did have issues last time I think with the neighbors.

Anna Kimberly stated, about the fencing and…

President Stimmel stated, there were some complaints but, but I agree with Shaker just, it doesn’t have to be 5 acres.

Michelle Rogers stated, right.

President Stimmel asked, Jerry anything?

Jerry Thompson stated, nothing.

President Stimmel asked, Charlie?

Charlie Mellon stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, Dave?

Dave Scott stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, okay are you ready to vote?

Director Weaver stated, Dave…

President Stimmel stated, I’m sorry, I apologize.

Director Weaver stated, I just want to point out that if they do move that fence back and to where they can meet the front setback requirements…

President Stimmel stated, they don’t need the variance.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s what I was going to say.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I was wondering about I would move that fence back, so you save yourself a buck there.  You get paid back.

Director Weaver stated, it’s not written that way.

Anna Kimberly stated, well thank you Mr. Cartmell for trying anyway.

Director Weaver stated, I mean that’s strictly up to you but I wanted to point that out if you do size down and you meet the setbacks the variance isn’t necessary.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay, so I guess we don’t even really know what the setbacks are.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, this variance is for the height.

Director Weaver stated, because it’s in the front yard.

President Stimmel stated, okay, all right, yes.

Director Weaver stated, see they can put a 4’ fence up to 10’ from the right-of-way but since they wanted a 6’ they had to have a variance.

Several people are talking at once.

Dave Scott asked, if they want to go 6’…

Director Weaver stated, I don’t have my ordinance here to tell you the new setbacks I believe you’re looking at 100’ off that stated highway.

Anna Kimberly asked, 100’?

Director Weaver stated, probably 80’ off the county highway.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea that’s right.

Director Weaver stated, here I can tell you but it’s got to be…

Anna Kimberly stated, well I have to bring the sign back anyway so if, tomorrow so if you have it printed up.

Charlie Mellon stated, 75 off a county.

Director Weaver stated, 75 off a county, 100’ off the state highway.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

President Stimmel stated, but by voting on the ordinance or by voting on the variance right now it’s a fantasy in the sense that they can bring it back smaller than that.

Dave Scott stated, right.

Charlie Mellon stated, yea.

Director Weaver stated, and closer then…

Shaker Hites stated, that does give them the right to put it on the perimeter if they decided to.

President Stimmel stated, that’s correct.

Shaker Hites stated, and…

Michelle Rogers stated, but it can be 6.

Anna Kimberly asked, even though if we size down can it still be 6’?

Director Weaver stated, if you meet the 75 and 100.

Michelle Rogers stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, if you want to go closer then that then you still need to request a variance.

Anna Kimberly stated, okay.

Director Weaver stated, I just wanted you to know your options.

Michelle Rogers asked, you said if we build closer then the 75 and 100?

Director Weaver stated, um hum.

Michelle Rogers stated, we still need the special.

Director Weaver stated, you’ll still need the variance.

Michelle Rogers stated, uh huh, okay.

Several people are talking at once.

President Stimmel stated, girls just so you understand and I’m speaking for Shaker and but his concern and I agree with him, it still allows you to pass this variance to fence the perimeter to where you requested.

Anna Kimberly stated, uh huh.

President Stimmel stated, and it’s going to give that industrial look, I think the preference would be to not do that quite frankly irregardless of how the vote turns out.

Michelle Rogers stated, right and we prefer that too.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Michelle Rogers stated, yea we really do but…

Attorney Altman stated, and counting this will be a non-breeding facility.

Michelle Rogers stated, no, it won’t be.

Anna Kimberly stated, yea.

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the property is properly zoned A-1, Agricultural.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.  Also see limits set out in #2748 as part of limits on the variance use.

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for a 2’ height variance to allow a 6’ chain link fence in the front yard for a kennel, Happy Tails on A tract of land out of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of Section Sixteen (16), Township Twenty-eight (28) North, Range Three (3) West in Liberty Township, White County, Indiana and described more fully as follows:
Beginning at a point which is the Northeast Corner of the North east Quarter (1/4) of the Northeast Quarter (1/4) of the above said Section Sixteen (16) and running thence North Eighty-nine Degrees and Fifteen Minutes West (N 89° 15’ W) Four Hundred Twelve and Five Tenths (412.5) feet; thence south zero Degrees East (S 0° E) Five Hundred Twenty-eight (528) feet; thence South Eighty-nine Degrees and Fifteen Minutes East (S 89° 15’ E) Four Hundred Twelve and Five Tenths (412.5) feet; thence North zero Degrees East (N 0° E) Five Hundred Twenty-eight (528) feet to the point of beginning, containing Five (5) Acres, more or less.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  The property is located on the Northwest corner of State Road 16 and West Shafer Drive at 8954 West Shafer Drive.

7.    That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, okay again announcing the results of petition #2749, 5 votes cast, 5 votes vote that the variance is hereby granted.  You need to get a building permit or a permit before you proceed also you need a building permit on the other also.

****

#2755     Alfred D. Bunch & Carol Trentlage; The property is located on part of Lot 7 in Hay’s Addition, in the Town of Brookston at 300 S. Ripley Street.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting a 12’ front (3rd Street) setback variance and an 8’ East side setback variance and a 6’ West side setback variance, and a 27’ rear setback variance to replace an existing storage building for a business.

President Stimmel asked, Mr. Bunch?

Alfred Bunch stated, yes.

President Stimmel asked, is there anything you want to add?

Alfred Bunch stated, as laid out here I think it’s pretty self describing.

President Stimmel stated, okay, okay.  Anybody in the audience want to speak for or against the variance?  Okay.  Board members questions? 

Jerry Thompson asked, just one, it says here for a business Al, I assume it’s for your business isn’t it?

Alfred Bunch stated, my business yes.

Jerry Thompson stated, and…

Alfred Bunch stated, just storage building is what it is.

Jerry Thompson stated, and your in the concrete business, just for the rest of the Board so they know what your doing there so.

Alfred Bunch stated, yes, right.

President Stimmel asked, Al have you talked to any of the neighbors?

Alfred Bunch stated, I talked to Bill Miller, Dave Alm, Dave Alm is mainly my neighbor.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Alfred Bunch stated, he owns all the way around me just about and so those are the two key people that I talk to.  Bill had no objections to it as long as I, you know didn’t have an automobile shop or something like that in the building which that’s not my intent so any, that pretty much where that went.  This here’s a letter that I received from Dave and Louie, my neighbors.

President Stimmel stated, let’s give that to our attorney he’ll read that.

Attorney Altman asked, didn’t we have that the last time.

President Stimmel stated, I don’t know.

Director Weaver stated, I think…

Alfred Bunch stated, yes.

President Stimmel stated, okay, all right.

Alfred Bunch stated, same letter.

Attorney Altman stated, I thought I read that the last time.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Alfred Bunch stated, that was a different Board.

Director Weaver stated, yea that was a different Board.

Attorney Altman stated, that was a different Board okay, excuse your right.

Attorney Altman stated, from David Alm and Louie Laskowski, 307 Prairie Street Brookston, Indiana, September 7, 2008.  To whom it may concern:  We are writing in support of Al Bunch’s requests for variance and rezoning.  Anything he does is always first class.  This project will be an improvement to our neighborhood and community.  We urge the approval of his request.  Thank you, Sincerely, David Alm & Eileen (Louie) Laskowski.

Alfred Bunch asked, did you agree with that Stimmel?

President Stimmel stated, I would agree with that.

Alfred Bunch stated, oh okay.

President Stimmel stated, not a problem with that.  Al one of the things I would ask you is what about the height?  I didn’t see that anywhere.

Alfred Bunch stated, there was a height on there but it’s not going to be as high as the surveyor had put on the print.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Alfred Bunch stated, it’s going to be down, I think it was around 23.

Carol Trentlage stated, or 20, 20.

Alfred Bunch stated, 20.

President Stimmel stated, it says 25 on the…

Gerald Cartmell stated, very close to that because remember we figured it.

Alfred Bunch stated, yea and we’d figured it that last time.

President Stimmel asked, the existing building is just that lean-to type shed.

Alfred Bunch stated, yea the lean-to and…

President Stimmel asked, 15, 16’ or something?

Alfred Bunch stated, yea, right, right.

President Stimmel stated, so this is going to be up there pretty good.

Carol Trentlage stated, no.

Alfred Bunch stated, well it’s a 3/6 pitch on it, 70’ wide.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Alfred Bunch stated, you can calculate that pretty quick, I’m sure.

President Stimmel stated, yea, what’s the, who lives on the west side of you now Al?

Alfred Bunch stated, Dave Alm.  He owns property west of me.

President Stimmel asked, is he the one that bought that house?  Okay.

Gerald Cartmell asked, you got jet let or what.

President Stimmel stated, he said that, I’m sorry.  I’m just concerned about the water run off that’s all I was thinking.

Jerry Thompson stated, well yea, true.

Alfred Bunch stated, that would be Bill Miller who’s on the back side of me which is south of me and him and I talked about that, there’s some drainage problems there right now that aren’t my problems created by me, it was created by others but you know I can’t, I have nothing to do with that.

President Stimmel asked, well what will you do with the gutters, leafs and things like that?

Alfred Bunch stated, well basically the gutter’s where it is right now, the pitch of the roof is going to be going north, south and so I’ll be dropping it back to the west of the building and the other will be coming to the east and I’ve got drainage there that’s taking it out.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  But I was just concerned…

Alfred Bunch stated, I’m not changing any drainage setup on where I’m at.

President Stimmel stated, yea but you’re putting along under roof and I guess that’s why I’m asking because it’s going to…

Alfred Bunch stated, yea.

President Stimmel stated, you know could be a problem for somebody with one of these 4” rains we’ve had.

Alfred Bunch stated, well the one that gets the 4”, the one that’s really the bad one is Bill Miller who’s on the south side of me there but the drainage was all changed in that area and that’s creating him the problem.  When I’d talked to him, he had never had water in his crawl space before and but he’s getting it now but it isn’t due to where I’m at it’s due to other things that have changed in the area.

President Stimmel asked, Dave did Max say anything about that the day you visited Louie?

Dave Scott stated, no, he didn’t have any concerns.

Jerry Thompson stated, I know Al will do it right but…

Alfred Bunch stated, I talked to Max here that one time about I’d even go back and do it and cut the grade back there and change that grade back there to shed that water which would make it better for Bill but you know I never did get any response out of it so I didn’t pursue it any farther.

President Stimmel stated, I’m sure if they got a problem recurring they’d address it.

Alfred Bunch stated, well I’ll just work with them, you know and that’s what got to be done anyway.

President Stimmel stated, yea.  Any questions from the Board? 

Jerry Thompson stated, I don’t want to complicate matters because I know it will be done right, I know, I know now but Jerry do we need anything at all from the Town of Brookston?

Charlie Mellon stated, it’d have to be approved from there.

Dave Scott stated, the zoning’s been approved.

Director Weaver stated, yea, they rezoned this just last week.

Jerry Thompson stated, okay, all right. That answers that, okay, all right, good.

Dave Scott stated, and for what it’s worth I talked to the town manager today about it and I was up there and looked at it.

Jerry Thompson stated, okay, that’s fine.

Director Weaver stated, and we send the town a copy of our survey that we receive and a letter to notify them of this too.

Jerry Thompson stated, good enough.

Dave Scott stated, he said if Al bought him a cup of coffee he’d…

Jerry Thompson stated, I know, that’s tough.

President Stimmel stated, are we ready to vote?  Gerald you got anything?  Okay, we’re ready to vote.

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the property is currently zoned B-2, General Business.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.  The rezoning was approved by the Town of Brookston, Indiana.

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for a 12’ front (3rd Street) setback variance and a 8’ East side setback variance and a 6’ West side setback variance, and a 7’ rear setback variance to replace existing storage for business on That part of Lot 7 in Hayes Addition to the Town of Brookston, Indiana described by:

Commencing at the Southwest corner of said Lot 7; thence North 7.00 feet; thence East 105.00 feet to the point of beginning; thence North 129.00 feet; thence East 90.00 feet; thence South 129.00 feet; thence West 90.00 feet to the point of beginning.  This description was prepared from the deed recorded as Document Number 050100188.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  Property is located in the town of Brookston at 300 S. Ripley Street.

7.    That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the vote on petition #2755, 5 votes cast, 5 votes the variance is granted.  You need to get a building permit before you proceed.

****

#2758     Ronald R. & Regina J. Berryman; The property is located on Lot 1 & 2 in Sherman’s Addition Blk 1, in the Town of Brookston at 201 N. Prairie Street.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting a 27 1/2’ front (St Rd 18) setback variance to build a new garage.

President Stimmel asked, and you are sir?

Ron Berryman stated, good evening gentlemen I’m Ron Berryman.

President Stimmel stated, thanks Ron.

Ron Berryman stated, and don’t think I ain’t nervous.

President Stimmel stated, you ought to sit over here for awhile.  Ron is there anything you want to add to what we, what I read?

Ron Berryman stated, no, I don’t think so.  I tried to cover everything I could.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  Any details?  I have not been down to see the…Jerry, what house is it from mine? 

Jerry Thompson stated, well he used to be the policeman in Brookston, Mr. Brown.

President Stimmel stated, oh Brown’s okay.

Jerry Thompson stated, right there across from Bank and Trust.

Ron Berryman stated, it used to be Dale Brown’s house, Dale and Jenella.

Charlie Mellon stated, the big house on the corner.

President Stimmel stated, I gotcha you.

Jerry Thompson stated, nice spot.  It’ll look nice, a new garage will look nice there.

Charlie Mellon stated, a lot of room.

Dave Scott stated, it’s an existing garage, he’s just building onto it.

Ron Berryman stated, yea I plan to keep the same style as the garage is now even, it has even little overhangs over, where the entrances are I want to have the contractor put those in too but, and that’s important to us.

Jerry Thompson stated, yep.

Dave Scott stated, my survey, state road 18, oh 18.

Jerry Thompson stated, 43 and 18.

Dave stated, yea 43 and 18.

Ron Berryman stated, it’s right on the corner, big white house.

Jerry Thompson stated, it’s a T there.

Dave Scott stated, yea, okay.

Jerry Thompson stated, yep.

Dave Scott asked, if he was building a new garage there I don’t think I’d be for it just because he’s going to be backing out on 18…

President Stimmel stated, I know it.

Dave Scott stated, and your only 12, 16 ½’ I guess that’s enough to get a car out.

Jerry Thompson stated, yea, yep, I agree.

President Stimmel stated, Ron the garage that you’re building, what about the height of that and I’m missing that somewhere.

Ron Berryman asked, the height?  I think 9’ walls.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Ron Berryman stated, it’s just a 1 story.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Ron Berryman stated, about the same size it is now.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Ron Berryman stated, just longer.

President Stimmel stated, just longer, okay.

Ron Berryman stated, yea and the goad of that is simply that me and my wife plan on living there and you know the rest of our lives and right now we’re going to use the new area as a like a utility room, wood shop type thing like that you know when we’re still young enough to do those kind of things but then I’m going to have the garage built with a header in it so that when we get older we can put another garage door in the other side and use that for you know more garage area…

President Stimmel stated, okay so this will…

Ron Berryman stated, to keep our vehicles in out of the elements.

President Stimmel stated, okay.  So this is not going to have a garage door in it, is that what you’re saying?

Ron Berryman stated, it will on the, like where the older part is.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Ron Berryman stated, it will have the same garage door, the same look but the new part will have a small window towards the upper area and then uh, but it will have a header inside for like future garage door.

President Stimmel stated, right.

Ron Berryman stated, that would be the only change we would make later on.  You know living in Brookston it’s nice to have a nice vehicle to drive that gets good gas mileage but in the winters it’s also nice to have a pick up truck and an SUV so.

Jerry Thompson asked, yep. 

President Stimmel asked, Gerald any question?

Ron Berryman stated, you know, it makes since to try to be safe like that.

Jerry Thompson stated, yep.

President Stimmel asked, anybody in the audience for or against?   Okay.  Any fan mail Diann?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, Dave Scott? 

Dave Scott stated, I don’t have anything.

President Stimmel asked, Dave, Charlie?

Charlie Mellon stated, no.

President Stimmel stated, no.  Jerry?

Jerry Thompson stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, ready to vote?

Board Members stated, yes.

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the building site is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for a 27 1/2’ front (St. Rd. 18) setback variance to build a new garage on Lots One and Two in Block One in Sherman’s Addition to the Town of Brookston, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  Property is located at 201 N. Prairie Street in the Town of Brookston.

7.    That the variance herein authorized and granted is not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make typical or recurrent the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said condition or situation of the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variance is based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variance under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the results of the vote on petition #2758, 5 votes cast, 5 votes vote the variance is hereby granted.  You need to get a building permit before you proceed.

Ron Berryman stated, thank you.

****

#2765     Howard M. & Kathryn H. Clark; The property is located on Lots 2, 3, & W ½ 4 in Russell’s Addition, in the Town of Brookston at 605 E. Third Street.

Violation:    None
Request:    They are requesting an 8’ front setback variance and a 12’ rear setback variance to build an addition to join the existing garage to the house and to bring it into compliance.

President Stimmel asked, Mr. Clark?

Howard Clark stated, yea the um, this was prompted by the fact that I’ve got a bad leak in my basement and there’s only 10’ between the house and the garage and by the time we get the leak fixed, we’ll have it all dug up anyway and so I decided to design this addition.

President Stimmel stated, all right.  No fan mail on this one?

Director Weaver stated, no.

President Stimmel stated, nobody’s left in the audience to complain so we’re pretty free there.
Jerry any questions?

Jerry Thompson stated, no, not at all.

President Stimmel asked, Charlie?

Charlie Mellon stated, no.

President Stimmel asked, Dave, Gerald?  Mr. Clark the only question I had is just wondering if anybody has talked to you about it since you’ve had the sign up, your neighbor’s or anybody like that had any questions that you had to answer or?

Howard Clark stated, we talked to all the neighbors and everybody seemed fine with it.

President Stimmel stated, okay.

Dave Scott stated, he had to bring the garage into compliance because he’s hooking it to the house, is that…

Director Weaver stated, that’s right, yes.

Dave Scott stated, so he’s not really…

Howard Clark stated, before it is the way it is, it’s been there for a long time.

President Stimmel stated, yea, for awhile.

Howard Clark stated, yea.

President Stimmel asked, ready to vote?

The Board finds the following:

1.    That the property is properly zoned R-2, One and Two Family Residential.

2.    That the lot was an existing lot of record at the time of enactment of the ordinance, as defined in Section 2.114.

3.    That the site plan survey provided shows the lot size, existing improvements and proposed improvements, see file for exhibit.

4.    That no objectors were present at the meeting.

5.    That proper notice was given by mail to adjoining property owners.

6.    That the request is for an 8’ front setback variance and a 12’ rear setback variance to build an addition to join the existing garage to the house and bring it into compliance on Lots Two (2), Three (3) and Thirty-six (36) feet off of the west side of Lot Number Four (4) in Russell’s Addition to the town, of Brookston, White County, Indiana.

COMMON DESCRIPTION:  Property is located in the Town of Brookston at 605 E. Third Street.

7.    That the variances herein authorized and granted are not so typical or recurrent in nature as to make reasonable practicable the formulation of a general regulation under an amendment of the ordinance for the above said specific piece of property, and the Board additionally finds that the above said variances are based on the findings of fact so made that are required to be made under the provisions of Section 10.10 of the White County Zoning Ordinance, said findings of fact support and create a fact situation that authorizes the above said variances under the above said sections of the zoning ordinance.

The variance was granted based on the findings of fact by a vote of 5 affirmative and 0 negative.

Attorney Altman stated, announcing the vote on petition #2765, 5 votes cast, 5 votes that your variance is hereby granted.  You need to get a building permit before you proceed.

President Stimmel stated, thank you Howard.

Howard Clark stated, thank you.

Attorney Altman stated, okay.

****

President Stimmel stated, okay we’ve got a piece of business to, at least I had a question about the letter about the suite.  Yea Mr. Altman has it.  Have a good night gentlemen.

Attorney Altman stated, okay the only thing I can tell you this on this letter is right now we have gone and we have a settlement here and as far as the settlement is concerned we have proceeded to comply to the letter of that settlement, the next and only step left of it is Mr. Blair securing the dismissal of a suite against his client because his client, the simplest way to say it is, is he sold the property before he had it approved and before he did anything to have it approved and because of that, that’s all that’s left to be done and as soon as that is done and settled the judge will dismiss it and that’s where I am on this matter.  No, nothing else, actually to be done it’s up to him to get his dismissal from that law suite and settle their peace and be done.

Gerald Cartmell stated, oh I thought we had to compensate them if they didn’t get…

Attorney Altman stated, I’m not agreeing to that.

Gerald Cartmell stated, yea I know but remember didn’t he throw that in, in that one letter that we compensate him…

Attorney Altman stated, well I mean he’s trying to throw everything in but the answer is if it happens the judge is going to order it.  I’m not doing it and we’re not doing it and I’m sure I can say that the County Commissioners are not doing it.

President Stimmel, well the Commissioners have said that they’re in fact the Commissioners did nothing that’s the whole point behind…

Attorney Altman stated, well they did in fact proceed and approve it.

Director Weaver stated, yea, they have now.

President Stimmel, oh they did, okay, all right.

Attorney Altman stated, yes they did, they have now, yes I’m sorry I did…

President Stimmel stated, that’s okay.  I’m a month behind.

Gerald Cartmell stated, drainage, and through the trailer house and…

President Stimmel stated, okay, okay no that answers my question because that’s what I was concerned with.

Charlie Mellon stated, tell your buddy there he can go.

Gerald Cartmell stated, see you Eric, thanks a lot.

Attorney Altman stated, that’s all I can think of Diann is there anything else we ought to be…

Director Weaver stated, well I did have something that came up um, not for this meeting but for next weeks meeting and just wanted to mentioned it to you that there is now a state statute that says that we can accept surveys in electronic signature and seal and one of the surveyors did send me a copy of the Indiana Code that addressed this so I just wanted to let you aware of that because I questioned him when we got it.  I said you know I need an original signature, well then he sent me this and said because of this stated code it is accepted as an original signature so.

Dave Scott stated, uh huh.

Director Weaver stated, I just wanted to set that straight you know and let you guys know that.

Attorney Altman asked, all the next week are they on the new ordinance?

Director Weaver stated, no, there’s 2 or 3 that are on the old ordinance.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, okay.

Director Weaver stated, yea, one of those might be tabled um, Hettinger’s rezoning was denied so she’s got to regroup so I’m expecting that one to be tabled for next week.

Attorney Altman stated, okay, okay, all right.

Jerry Thompson asked, are we starting at regular time next week?

President Stimmel asked, it’s too late to change it isn’t it?

Director Weaver stated, yea, it’s already been advertised.

Jerry Thompson stated, I just scanned at this this morning, how many do we have for next…

Gerald Cartmell stated, 15.

Charlie Mellon stated, 10.

Director Weaver stated, ye, 15.

Jerry Thompson stated, holey moley.

Attorney Altman stated, well I’ll tell you what…

Gerald Cartmell stated, you better bring snacks.

Attorney Altman stated, the ones...

Shaker Hites stated, I got one question…

Attorney Altman stated, the ones on the new ordinance, quite frankly, new ordinance is going to you know I think we’ve heard from about everybody else.  A new ordinance is going to have to be the boss on the stuff anymore, and quite frankly we’re not here to look at something and say they’ve got plenty of room and approve a variance anymore on the new ordinance.

President Stimmel asked, Shaker?

Shaker Hites stated, just because I don’t know most of these things this when we gave this lady a 83’ variance is there, why does she need a 83’ variance is that because the zoning’s not right in the first place or…

Director Weaver stated, she’s got a small parcel of ground for the type of zoning that she has, yes.

Shaker Hites stated, which is my…

Director Weaver stated, and she had…

Shaker Hites asked, so is that going to be changed?

Director Weaver stated, she has 2 front yards.

Shaker Hites asked, are we still going to look at somebody that has to be 83’ from something that they don’t own 20’ of?

President Stimmel stated, I’m not sure which one your talking specific Shaker.

Director Weaver stated, I think he’s talking about Dallinger’s.

Shaker Hites stated, yea Dallinger’s.

President Stimmel asked, Dallinger’s.

Shaker Hites stated, she needed an 83’ variance and my goodness she doesn’t have, she couldn’t have 83’ feet if she built it on the neighbors place.

Director Weaver stated, well she could try to rezone it to a more appropriate zoning and we do occasionally have them choose to do that instead of a variance.

Shaker Hites stated, so my question is, is that going to be changed when we get this new book out or…

Director Weaver stated, actually the setbacks are larger in an A-1 then they are, used to be in the old one.

President Stimmel stated, so the answer to that question…

Director Weaver stated, the answer would be worse.

Jerry Thompson stated, that’s why I was laughing because…

Dave Scott stated, well I think Jerry made a good point, we’ve been real, I’m guilty as anybody, our Board’s guilty the most about being lenient about giving, I mean we’ve, there’s somehow or other we’ve got to even when we make a variance there should be…

Gerald Cartmell stated, there’s got to be a dire hardship.

Dave Scott stated, a percent that will vary or something so that we can stay consistent.  I mean there’s cases where there’s hardship but…

President Stimmel asked, do we want to talk about this off the record?

Dave Scott stated, oh yea.

Attorney Altman stated, I thin the truth is we really can’t discuss this as a Board.

Dave Scott stated, oh okay.

President Stimmel asked, we can discuss what goes into or can we not, about what goes into making a decision?

Attorney Altman stated, we sure can do that, you can look at the ordinance and read it and it’s very specific about what is and or what isn’t considered a variance.

President Stimmel asked, what else do you have Diann?

Director Weaver stated, the only thing I have is I think I sent to all of you about the Nitty Gritty Workshop.  They’re going to have one…

President Stimmel stated, yea.

Director Weaver stated, October 9th and one November 17th.   If I have enough to make the reservations by Monday then I can pay for that out of my budget up front instead of you having to pay for it up front so just wanted to remind you of that.

Several Board Members are talking at once.

Shaker Hites asked, for Happy Tails is it, that went real fast and is it part of the corporations right and not whoever owns that property afterwards or?  I just thought that was…

President Stimmel stated, say that again Shaker.

Shaker Hites stated, well they got a right, they have a right now to build a perimeter fence on the property line 6’ high.

President Stimmel stated, that’s correct.

Shaker Hites asked, is that just with that property or is that that corporation?

Attorney Altman stated, with that property.

Shaker Hites stated, so if they sell that…

Director Weaver stated, yea because you didn’t make that clarification.

Dave Stimmel stated, we didn’t state that specifically.  That’s correct.

Gerald Cartmell stated, I know I didn’t write it in there.

Shaker Hites stated, …(this can’t be understood).

President Stimmel stated, yep.  I think you got a good, I mean there’s no sense in fencing in that large of a piece of property for…of dogs.

Gerald Cartmell stated, they don’t have the money anyhow.

President Stimmel stated, I can’t imagine how they’re going…

Shaker Hites stated, well yea but they got the right now whoever owns the property…

President Stimmel stated, right.

Shaker Hites stated, they got the right to build that fence now.

President Stimmel stated, no not whoever owns the property.

Shaker Hites stated, well that’s what I asked did that go with the corporation or property.

President Stimmel stated, it doesn’t…

Director Weaver stated, for the fence you do, for the fence it’s with the property.

Shaker Hites stated, that’s what I thought because that fence belongs to the property.

Director Weaver stated, the fence is with the property.

President Stimmel stated, no the variance is granted for Happy Tails not for the property right, am I, I’m misunderstanding.

Dave Scott stated, the second variance was for the property wasn’t it?

Director Weaver stated, right, right.

President Stimmel stated, okay all right.

Dave Scott stated, the first one was for Happy Tails.

Charlie Mellon stated, they had to go through and get it.

Shaker Hites stated, it’s a done deal.

President Stimmel stated, yea it’s a done deal, your right.

Director Weaver stated, that’s all I have.

President Stimmel stated, we second guess a lot of them Shaker.



****



Jerry Thompson made motion to adjourn.

Dave Scott seconded the motion.

The meeting adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,




David Scott, Secretary




Diann Weaver, Director
White County Area Plan Commission






















Document Prepared By: __White County Area Plan, _______________________________________________


“I AFFIRM, UNDER THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY, THAT I HAVE TAKEN REASONABLE CARE TO REDACT EACH SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER IN THIS DOCUMENT, UNLESS REQUIRED BY LAW.”

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