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January 4, 2011
The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana. Board members present were: President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich. Also present were Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Bradley Ward and Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett.
Also in attendance were:
Sharon Watson-White County Soil and Water Michael Yelton-Town of Wolcott
James Reisert-Strand & Associates Chad Reynolds-Town of Wolcott
Katie MacMannis-Strand & Associates Wayne Ringer-Witko Representative
Dale Ringer-Witko Representative Irvin Furrer
The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the December 20th 2010 meeting. Board Member Steve Burton so moved. Board Member John Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
The second item on the agenda was the reorganization the White County Drainage Board for 2011. Board Member Burton made a motion to keep the same officers from 2010 with the exception of the newly elected White County Surveyor. Officers are as follows:
Ronald Schmierer -President
Steve Burton-Vice President
Brad Ward-White County Surveyor
George W. Loy-Attorney
Board Secretary-Position not filled at this time.
Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion. Motion carried.
The Next item on the agenda was open quotes on the Milton Martin Maintenance Project, only one quote was submitted.
Attorney Loy responded, "County Line Tiling/Excavating, did any one here submit a quote other than them?"
Board Member Steve Burton asked, "He was the only one?"
Attorney Loy stated, "He was the only one and his quote was Three Thousand, Eight Hundred Dollars ($3,800.00).
Surveyor Ward said, "Denny (Surveyor Retired) had it estimated at about Five Thousand ($5,000.00) Dollars."
Board Members asked about the location of the Milton Martin Drain, this drain is located in Monon Township near the stone quarry.
Attorney Loy continued, "Straightening the ditch, reshaping the slope and brushing."
Chairman Schmierer asked for a motion to accept the bid of County Line Tiling/Excavating. Board Member Heimlich so moved. Board Member Burton seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
Next item on the agenda was Mr. Ringer regarding Witko flooding.
Chairman Schmierer told Mr. Ringer that he could stand up and present his case.
Mr. Ringer (Dale) replied, "I guess we really don’t have a case we are just trying to find out what is in the County plans for the somewhat of a waterway leading from nine hundred (900) over to the Stoller Ditch to eliminate flooding of both in town and as well as our (Witko) location out on nine hundred (900).
Chairman Schmierer replied, "Well, I don’t think we have any plans at this time. I don’t think any thing has been done on it. The Town of Wolcott has brought us plans for drainage. We have not approved them because our concerns are bringing more water to you then you are already receiving."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "Right!"
Chairman Schmierer continued, "… that has been our concerns and they have not been approved."
Dale Ringer continued, "We have had the problem since we have been there, John (Board Member Heimlich) is one of the people that has been out and seen it. I guess, what needs to happen on our end? Do we need to do some thing or do we need to come to you guys with proposal or what? Well, I guess don’t know what the next step is…"
Board Member Heimlich answered, "Any thing with the water way would have to be petitioned. The water way is not regulated so we have no jurisdiction over it."
Mr. Ringer replied, "What about a tile or some thing then?"
Board Member Heimlich stated, "The tile is a County tile."
Attorney Loy stated, "If I may, procedurally right now the Town of Wolcott has formulated a proposed plan which requires review and approval by the County Drainage Board for a couple of reasons. One is our County Drainage Ordinance requires any drainage plan of that scope requires approval of the Drainage Board. The Drainage Board again is not formulating that plan that is not our engineer that is doing it, it is the town. But it also involves as I understand putting additional water into an existing County drain which also requires Drainage Board approval."
Mr. Ringer asked, "Did the Board give approval for INDOT (Indiana Department Of Transportation) to dump into that with the work that they are doing down town?"
Board Member Burton replied, "No!"
Attorney Loy replied, "INDOT is a different entity ."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "They were already going into that tile. They probably put more into it but they were always draining that area of that street. Well, the south end I know the Unroe down at the south they (INDOT) were already draining into that weren’t they? Were they draining in the north?"
Chad Reynolds answered, "The north….yes, they had an eight (8) inch tile dumping into a bigger tile that is under the open ditch on the north end."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "That is the only way they could go."
Chairman Schmierer continued, "That is the only way they could go with that, they were already doing it they might have increased it."
Chad Reynolds replied, "They went to a twelve (12) inch."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "Yeah, they increased it but they were already doing it."
Mr. Ringer asked, "So there is a potential for more water flow just from that?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "Well, yeah. If you put a bigger tile in definitely."
Board Member Burton asked, "Do you want to address this George (Attorney Loy)? What he is talking about is the water way of the tile for some thing to happen there even though it is County regulated it would have to be petitioned by the land owner?"
Attorney Loy replied, "You are talking reconstruction?"
Board Member Burton replied, "I don’t work on that……"
Attorney Loy answered, "Sure!"
Chairman Schmierer said, "It would have to be reconstruction, basically if you are going to turn a water way into a ditch you would have to do construction not reconstruction. That’s construction."
Board Member Burton asked, "Or increase the tile size?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "Or increase the tile size either one."
Attorney Loy stated, "Which would require again petitioning this Board to do that and this Board approving the plan, a specific plan."
Chairman Schmierer said, "I am not sure even if we put a bigger tile in if it is going to solve the problem because it gets out there to the field or where ever it gets. I not sure it can get away out there."
Mr. Ringer said, "From nine hundred (900) to Stoller Ditch is were it slows up, there has been several times that we are completely under water and we can go to Stoller Ditch and it is not half full. The hold up is between nine hundred (900) and Stoller Ditch whether it is with the tile or the tile and above ground water as well. The reason we are asking obviously it has always been a problem. I guess we never pursued it to this level to find out what needed to be done with the Drainage Board. Now with the town wanting to dump additional water on us. So now we are trying to find out what we need to do make sure that doesn’t happen."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "We have not approved that plan because of that because of what you are talking about. We knew that there was a problem out there already and we didn’t want to exacerbate it."
Mr. Ringer asked, "So to go though this procedure what kind of time frame are you talking as far as petitioning?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "By the time you get a petition to us it could be a year before we could even start on it. Say you got to get a petition it is going to take more than just your petition it is going to take other land owners. If you got fifty (50) percent against it or sixty (60) percent against, I don’t know what it is…."
Attorney Loy stated, "Well, some thing like that but you want every body generally on board."
Mr. Ringer asked, "You say landowners going out how far from…."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "Affected landowners!"
Board Member Heimlich replied, "See in that case this would basically be a new drain because the water way is not regulated now. That is just surface water going out there. The tile is regulated and the water way isn’t regulated. That is what he is talking about digging that water way deeper."
Board Member Burton stated, "We would refer to that as the water shed."
Board Member Heimlich replied, "Yeah, it would be any body in the water shed, any body’s surface water that is going there which would include the town."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Who owns that ground between nine hundred (900) and ….."
Chad Reynolds answered, "I think that is Stoller property, some of it is not all of it."
Board Member Heimlich asked, "How long is the water way across there it is not all that far is it?"
Chad Reynolds answered, "One quarter (1/4) of a mile maybe it would not be a half (½) mile I would not think. It is not very deep though you can see there is a water way but not drastic."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "It is farmed through right?"
Chad Reynolds answered, "It is farmed through."
Board Member Burton stated, "These are some of the things you would go though for this being on. It is just that we have never been approached for a petition to have this done. Again it is a misconception that if it is a County tile that the County is responsible for it. If you are paying a drainage tax on it you are the owner, we just regulate it."
Mr. Ringer asked, "The tile, the ditch or the water way ?"
Board Member Heimlich replied, "The tile is a County tile, the water way is unregulated."
Board Member Burton stated, "There are some water ways that are regulated by the County but this particular one is not."
Mr. Ringer replied, " Is not, for all parts you guys responsibility is for the tile?"
Chairman Schmierer stated, "We over see!"
Irvin Furrer stated. "If I could make a comment, that water does come down across us but I don’t perceive that the water way is the problem. The water does not run over the top of the blacktop. The problem is if they are going to get rid of more water it has to get under the blacktop quicker. I am not convinced that the water way is holding up the water at all."
Mr. Ringer stated, "They put new tile under nine hundred (900) thinking it would move it quicker underneath there but if you would look at my flooding there is water standing on one side and fairly flowing on the other side. What area are you talking about that you don’t think it affects, which part?
Irvin Furrer answered, "I am saying water that comes down from Wolcott has to go through what a thirty (30) inch culvert in two (2) or three (3) places that is all the faster that it is going to go and when it gets to the culvert it isn’t getting though. I can’t see that the water ever gets up on the blacktop."
Board Member Heimlich asked, "How big is the culvert out by you underneath nine hundred (900)?"
Mr. Ringer replied, "I think it is pretty big, they just put three (3) in didn’t they?"
Chad Reynolds said, "I think it was one before wasn’t it? Probably two (2) three (3) footers at
least. I don’t know some body would have to take some shots at the level of the ground at those two culverts verses going across the water way at the ditch."
Board Member Burton replied, "The culverts are a little higher than what the land would be right?"
Chad Reynolds answered, "They should be yeah!"
Mr. Ringer asked, "So far as the Drainage Board what would we need to do if we want the County to do any thing. It would be petitioning and for them to look at the tile? The water way has nothing to do with them and as far as what the city is wanting to do is between us and the city. Is that correct? I am trying to understand."
Board Member Heimlich replied, "Well, no! We have to approve their drainage plan because they are dumping into a regulated ditch."
Attorney Loy replied, "It is the town that you would talk to about that plan because it is their plan."
Mr. Ringer said, "Right, well being their plan I guess our stance would be to you guys would be if you are the ones that approve it I would recommend from our stand point not to approve it. Just for the simple fact that we flood six (6) or seven (7) times a year to where it floods up to our door. I am sure there would be more water coming to us. They have talked of restrictors to eliminate or to regulate it but that same amount of water and more still has got to come to us at some point. Where they are restricting it on the south side of the road before the pond where at the pond is where it is pushing it out towards us or the pond, or the park I should say. I guess if the County is not able to do any thing from my stand point would be not to go though with it. Unless the city can come up with some thing for us to fix, some type of a fix. We met with them this morning they had some ideas and they wanted to know if we would be open to them. Our comment was only if the could guarantee that we were not going to flood by not putting more water out towards us."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "You were not the only one that got flooded out there either. Our concerns at our last meeting with them (The Town of Wolcott)when they brought it to us about a month ago. That was our concerns at that time was what we were going to with the water and what it was going to do that area out there."
Mr. Ringer replied, "Obviously it is going to benefit us and every body if we can do things to improve the town but we can’t do it risking our self."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "I am not sure how that can be fixed out there without reconstruction totally. What do you think, do think it would take a bigger tile or what?"
Irvin Furrer answered, "Well, it is a matter of who………the more water they put on there the more I flood. The Stoller Ditch comes through us dumps in the Hoagland and when we get a big rain we get flooded. The more water they put on… but I am not against drainage. I don’t think the problem is on the east side of the blacktop. I think it is the culverts that come out from town. There is the most restriction. Doesn’t the water have to go through one thirty (30) inch culvert?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "They put two (2) or three (3) culverts in there"
Mr. Ringer said, "Turning in to our drive way and…………."
Irvin Furrer stated, "I know by their driveway but I think that water has to go through one (1) thirty (30) inch culvert and that is not the water way over the field that is holding the water."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "That culvert will hold it too."
Chad Reynolds stated, "That ditch that runs on the west side of nine hundred (900) is not big enough to carry it. It needs to be twice as wide and deeper than what it is, it is not very deep."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "It is suppose to be a road ditch only. It is not meant to take the water from town."
Chad Reynolds said, "Right, two (2) or three (3) years ago it was dredged and they got to close to a pole and they had to shore the pole up, you remember that too. It is not right there either it is like Irv is saying nothing is big enough from US, 24 out to Witko, nothing is big enough."
James Reisert asked, "Based on your experience is it actually the open ditch along the side of the road way that is actually backing up or is it pushed upon the east side of nine hundred (900)…."
Mr. Ringer stated, "I can’t tell you what it does down stream on Stoller’s ditch but I know it back up on to us because of where it goes under the road. Once it gets to that road that is where the bottle neck is and then backs up all around the building."
James Reisert replied, "Most of the restrictions that are causing the flooding are down stream of your property not south of your property?"
Mr. Ringer said, "What are you saying, the bottle neck is past us it is north of us."
James Reisert replied, "The water gets to you fast enough but not leaving your area fast enough."
Mr. Ringer answered, "It is not flooding over the ditch in front of us it doesn’t come out the ditch until it gets down to where it goes under the road."
James Reisert stated, "So the ditch itself isn’t………. with the restriction……………."
Chad Reynolds said, "I kind of agree with Irvin if it is not going over the road that makes a little bit of sense but still it is kind of like your drain plug in your bath tub it is just not getting away from us."
Mr. Ringers replied, "But if it is a problem like the thirty (30) inch under the road that turns into us. If that was the problem restricting it, it would be flowing out over the banks on the other side then. It is not coming out of that ditch any where until it down where it comes out under the road."
Chad Reynolds said, "If there was one (1) culvert going under nine hundred (900) and now there are three (3) that could solve a lot of the issues. No body knows we haven’t had any rain yet."
Mr. Ringer said, "It could get through there fast enough it could open that water way. No body knows because we haven’t had a rain. Possibly! Increased water for the road now too! We are just here to protect ourselves of what could happen."
Board Member Burton replied. "That is all our intent also!"
Chairman Schmierer stated, "Have you (James Reisert) presented a new plan to Todd (Frauhiger)?"
James Reisert replied, "We have presented an idea for restriction. We are purposing a concrete wall or super high wall which has openings in the bottom of the ditch. What you are looking at here (showing the Drainage Board a map) are cross sections of the proposed ditch just north of our out fall or just north of the Pugh Tile. It would be along Fourth Street just between US 24 and the Pugh Tile catch basin. What we are purposing is a concrete wall that will be basically as deep as the purposed ditch and then have some openings at the bottom of the ditch to allow a normal …… last two (2) year event to flow through. If it is a larger event then it will most likely over top flooding the park but on most normal events it will slow the actual discharge to the existing two year event.
Chairman Schmierer asked, "We haven’t heard from Todd (Frauhiger) he called and said that he could not be here today."
Board Member Burton asked, "So this is on the east side of what I call the Vet Supply Street, (some one responded on the east side of Fourth Street). So that is going to be to the north of the center…."
James Reisert replied, "This is the County Drain Map, the Veterinary Building is right here and this is the Pugh Tile that goes underneath where it has the two catch basins. We are purposing to put it just north of the Pugh Tile. So this way we are out falling right here going in to an open ditch then putting a catch basin tying into the Pugh Tile then have the restriction just north of there."
Board Member Burton asked, "Is your out fall there a little bit of a side ditch there in that street ? Will that ditch be bigger there then?"
James Reisert answered, "Not necessarily bigger but it will be deeper just because of the out fall elevation that we had to have and the fact we had to flatten that ditch out more. It was the area we were purposing was a paved ditch."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "When did Todd (Frauhiger) get these?"
James Reisert answered, "A week or so after our last Board Meeting."
Board Member Burton asked, "George, (Attorney Loy) did he communicate any thing to you?"
Attorney Loy answered, "He talked to my secretary and said he was on route from Florida and that is all I know. We could give him a call. "
Board Member Heimlich continued, "Is this the scenario that he is talking about where it would flood the park more often?"
James Reisert replied, "It will most likely result in flooding the park more often. Just because the new storm sewer system will work a lot better than the existing system so the water will get there faster. That is why we are purposing a restriction to slow it down to get it in at least the temporary situation till we can prove down stream or at least slow it down closest to the existing,"
Board Member Heimlich asked, "Am I right that the Township owns the park?"
James Reisert answered, "That is correct."
Board Member Heimlich asked, "Have they been informed of what is going on?"
James Reisert answered, "Yes!"
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Who did you inform in the Township?"
Michael Yelton answered, "Linda Fox sent a letter I believe to Marian Jordan."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "She is not the Trustee now."
Michael Yelton replied, "She is not? I can call the hall if you want to find out."
Board Member Heimlich said, "I don’t think that there is one (Trustee) right now. I think there is a caucus maybe tonight to appoint a new one. Under that scenario, we would have to hear it from Todd (Frauhiger) what his opinion of it is but I think we have got to have approval from the Township Board or Trustee. Since it is their property that is basically being used as a retention pond."
Board Member Burton replied, "Going along with the approval there needs to be some kind of a document stating that they are granting….."
Attorney Loy replied, "Yes, some thing that they can do an easement or a consent."
James Reisert replied, "They would have to have that from the Township?"
Chairman Schimerer stated. "You would have to have an easement from the Township,"
James Reisert asked, "What would we need the easement for?"
Chairman Schimerer replied, "Granting to flood."
Board Member Burton stated, "Even though it may be happening right now there is…."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "The park floods now but what we are talking about are changes that are going to flood it more often."
Board Member Burton said, "So that is where we would be asking to have some kind of knowledge on their part and that they agree."
Michael Yelton stated, "Witko is flooding now and when we work on twenty-four (24) that has happened it is going to flood them more where is our agreement with them?"
Board Member Heimlich replied, "I don’t know if that is the case or not."
Michael Yelton stated, "It flooded before and we have up sized the tile that puts water into it and put in more catch basins. Witko would flood more often now that is just common sense."
Attorney Loy stated, "Witko is not in favor of it."
Michael Yelton replied, "That is correct they are already not in favor of that and I would have to say I agree with them. I’m not either in favor of the town putting more water on Witko faster."
Board Member Burton stated, "A couple of times we have referred to what IDOT (Indiana Department of Transportation) has done and whether or not they have come to us for approval. You kind of got to……"
Attorney Loy said, "We do not have authority over INDOT."
Board Member Heimlich replied, "They are controlling the water from their highway run off, the highway right-of-way."
Michael Yelton said, "There is no ramification from Witko, there is nothing that they can do now because they are going to get flooded more frequently and faster because of the work that INDOT did."
Attorney Loy stated, "You need to talk to INDOT."
Michael Yelton replied, "By Witko and all the property owners affected by the Pugh Tile and the Stoller petitioning this Board for action to get that water away faster that is the next step for Witko and or the Town of Wolcott, is that correct?"
Chairman Schmierer said, "You are going to have to put in a bigger tile or…….."
Michael Yelton replied, "That is correct but…….."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "The decision for the water way again there would have to be some work done there so you make sure if we do dig that water way out that it actually does…."
Michael Yelton asked, "If we did not dig the water way out because that is obviously through some body farm if we put in a larger tile to handle the water, is that correct?"
Board Member Burton replied, "That has been suggested."
Board Member Heimlich answered, "Yes, but it is going to have to be a…….."
Attorney Loy stated, "That is an engineering decision."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Irv (Irvin Furrer) if we put a bigger tile in and bring more water down to the Stoller Ditch is that going to create problems for the farmers down that way?"
Irvin Furrer answered, "When we get a big rain the Stoller Ditch goes out of its banks."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "I said that the other day and they said no that it didn’t go out until it got down to the Hoagland but I thought that it always has gone out. I have been out there before when it has gone out."
Irvin Furrer stated, "It has lots of fall from nine hundred (900) straight north of Wolcott to the Hoagland Ditch. But when the Hoagland Ditch gets full the Stoller Ditch can’t go any where and it goes out of its banks. The Hoagland is between five (5) and six hundred (600) and it will go out as far back as seven (7) and eight hundred (800) West. It goes out of its banks a mile or a mile and one half west of the Hoagland Ditch. It goes out pretty bad some times. I know that water has to go…"
Board Member Heimlich stated, "When the Hoagland gets full every thing that goes into it is going to back up."
Irvin Furrer replied, "Is going to back up because there is no where for it to go. It takes time you have to have patience."
Attorney Loy stated, "In the cost of any work on the existing drain or construction of a new one are paid by the land owners. The affected land owners not the County. The County will assess the cost of that construction to the land owners. I’m not talking the town’s plan but I’m talking about ……"
Irvin Furrer replied, "Look at how much damage the water is causing."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "You got to look at it to see if it is feasible to spend the money. Is reaping the harvest off spending the money is it going to be enough to off set the damage that you are doing."
Board Member Burton replied, "That would be the approach of where I think your question was going. There would be some kind of engineering to figure out, how much water will be added with the future needs and it would be an adequate size to do that. Then you go backwards into cost. Then it would be presented."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "That is the question that is asked at every reconstruction hearing, do the benefits out weigh the cost?
Attorney Loy said, "Some times they don’t."
Board Member Burton replied, "Right, this would be a little different project because of the town’s interest and the factories interest. Not all the time do you run into where you have got factories and a town on to a County tile. This complicates the situation obviously."
Attorney Loy stated, "Cost assessed to property within the Town of Wolcott for instance or any town or city would be handled one of two ways. One is the town gets a bill, assessment, or the individuals with in the town get the bill. Now any land owned of the Town of Wolcott of course the town gets the bill period, if there is such."
Board Member Burton asked, "James (Reisert), the infamous tile that goes under two (2) house down here on the Unroe, looking at a map, this would be Burke right? Where are the houses at that……."
Michael Yelton said, "Down at the end of Johnson Street by the park, or by the pond. One of them would be Bev Evans and the other would be Joyce Foulks."
Attorney Loy stated, "That is not a County Tile, it is a private tile?"
Michael Yelton replied, "Private tile!"
Chairman Schmierer asked, "You are going to hook into it?"
Michael Yelton replied, "We are going to hook into it beyond where at goes underneath the houses."
James Reisert stated, "Down here on Market Street we were going to hook into it just north of the railroad tracts."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Are you going to put a back flow on it so it can’t back up?"
James Reisert answered, "One of the concerns that we had was with a ten (10) year event that we needed an eighteen (18) inch storm sewer in the existing tile there. At least for that stretch between the railroad and where we are tying in there it is only a fifteen (15) inch tile. We are purposing to put a restrictor plate on there to reduce the size of our pipe to twelve (12) or fifteen (15) inches. So that we won’t be bringing the larger pipe into the smaller but we didn’t have a back flow preventer on it."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "So that goes into the Unroe?"
Michael Yelton replied, "That goes under the Unroe and dumps into that twenty-four (24) inch tile that goes down Scott Street and changes into the thirty (30) inch tile out there by the sewage plant. That fifteen (15) inch ties into that tile."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Haven’t we had trouble with that tile too or not or is on the other side of town?"
Michael Yelton replied, "It has broken down out in the water way a few times and they just replaced it. Milestone just replaced it from Burke Street back part of the way down Scott Street beyond the highway."
Chairman Schmierer asked, "Did they go back and hook on to it where we went to that time?"
Michael Yelton answered, "Yes!"
Chairman Schmierer stated, "Well, I don’t think we can do any thing with it today, Todd (Frauhiger) is not here to approve it."
During the next few minutes of this meeting Board Member Burton was having a conversation with James Reisert while they were looking at an old plan. Mr. Burton just wanted to be clear that he knew exactly where and the size of the tile that the town was hooking on to the County Tile. (See disc for complete conversation between Board Member Burton and James Reisert.)
Chairman Schmierer then continued, "There is not much that we can do with it until Todd (Frauhiger) gets a chance to get with us. We will have to get him to review it and get his opinion on it. I am sorry there is no way we can approve it today until we get all that."
Michael Yelton asked, "There has been no discussion with Todd on what we are purposing?"
Chairman Schmierer answered, "I have never had any discussion with him and I don’t think Denny (Retired Surveyor) had either, he didn’t say anything to me Friday. Todd is probably in Florida for a couple of weeks."
Attorney Loy stated, "The message that I got was that he is on route from Florida and he will be calling in some time today."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "I don’t see enough change that is going to change anything we still don’t have enough outlet. It is still flooding the park and that is some thing that you are going to have to get an easement or some thing from the Township or the park. It floods there all the time."
Attorney Loy stated, "Right now you don’t have a Township Trustee and or a full Board."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "You only have one (1) Board Member at the present time. They got a quorum, they are going to have a meeting tonight I think to try to appoint a Trustee and Board Members. I don’t know how receptive they will be to flooding the park more than it has already been flooded."
Board Member Burton stated, "Back to your question, from your place to the east there is the County Tile underneath there and the discussion seems to center around the project on the north side of town. The tile is not sufficient to handle the town and or the businesses out there. The first step would probably be to get a petition from the Surveyor, does he give it to them or where do they get the petition (From the Surveyor’s office). Get as many names on there as you can muster up and present it to the Surveyor then he presents it us and that becomes the first step in that process. Correct?"
Attorney Loy replied, "I do advise you at least to talk to an Attorney."
Mr. Ringer asked, "When you take estimates for the maintenance work that is done around the County at what point does the Board decide what they are going to maintain this time around, how does that work?"
Chairmen Schmierer replied, "Each ditch has its own fund. We don’t spend the money off of this ditch on that ditch."
Mr. Ringer stated, "I am assuming that the ditch has so much money in it. Do you wait until it is fully funded and then say ok it must be time to clean the ditch or do you basically drive around and say oh this one needs cleaned."
Board Member Heimlich replied, "No, it is usually the landowners have come to us, like a petition."
Mr. Ringer replied, "Every thing that has an estimate with it has been petitioned to this Board?"
Board Member Burton stated, "General maintenance, Irv (Irvin Furrer) could come in and say hey I got a problem, I have some tile blown out, I have got a ditch bad. The Surveyor would go out to look at it and say yeah I think that is ok or run it by the Board or say go ahead and do this. As the cost goes up the Surveyor and the Board does a lot more communications. As the cost goes up there is a lot more scrutiny and again it reaches a point where he is losing a lot of crops and the ten (10) farmers around his ground say that not a problem for us we don’t want to do it. He is one of ten (10) so you know you can kind of see how that weighs."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "One thing about it is the assessments on the ditches are much higher than they were fourteen (14) years ago. Some times there is never any money in it, we have had to raise some of them from thirty-five (35) cent to three dollar and one half ($3.50) and that is a drastic change. But if you can’t farm the ground three dollars and one half ($3,50) isn’t much money, if you can’t farm the ground. Sharon (Sharon Watson-Soil and Water), can tell you that we have been through a lot that didn’t have any money. I don’t know where the Stoller Ditch is at, I have no idea."
Board Member Heimlich replied, "It has money in it."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "Its got some money in it that can be used but we probably also would petition that and have a one time fee, if we put a bigger tile in."
Michael Yelton asked, "It would be cheaper to do an open ditch from nine hundred (900) out there to the Stoller Ditch wouldn’t it?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "You have to buy the ground and everything too. Ground is pretty expensive right now some of those people out there think it is worth twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000.00) an acre."
Irvin Furrer replied, "Not wet ground."
Board Member Burton stated, "We have two (2) ditches that are involved the Unroe is probably a little bit in debt or is it even.?"
Drainage Assistant Sterrett replied, "No, it is still a little in debt."
Board Member Burton continued, "Because of all that work that has been done down there. The Stoller will collect four (4) times the amount that it yearly collects. If it collects one thousand dollars ($1,000.00) year through all your assessments once it reaches four thousand dollars ($4,000.00) it stops. Unless there is need. That is how that maintenance fund is handled."
Mr. Ringer asked, "Any new tile that dumps into the Stoller Ditch that also has to be petitioned and approved for?"
Chairman Schmierer replied, "Not if it is private."
Mr. Ringer replied, "A private tile can go into the Stoller Ditch."
Board Member Heimlich stated. "They have to get permission but we don’t control any private tiles."
Board Member Burton said, "That private tile is going to be in the water shed already. So that water is assumed that it is in the Stoller, if it is a private tile or over ground."
Board Member Heimlich said, "That landowner would be paying on the Stoller."
Mr. Ringer asked, "Correct but they could put in their own tile?"
Board Member Heimlich stated, "They could put in their own tile."
Mr. Ringer stated, "The ground water that they are putting in there would have gotten in there any way. So they are just getting it there at a more convent rate for them."
Chairman Schimerer said, "I am sorry we can’t give you better news but that is where we are at."
Board Member Burton stated, "We are not getting joy out of saying "No!"
Mr. Ringer replied, "I understand you are involved making sure that all the property owners have their tax money spent so that it helps every body. I understand that."
Board Member Heimlich stated, "The idea of the Drainage Ordinance in the first place was to make sure that what owner "A" over here is doing development wise isn’t going to adversely affect drainage of "B" down the road here. That is what we have to protect. We have to make sure that what the Town of Wolcott wants to do there is not adversely affecting some body else. That is what the Drainage Ordinance requires us to do."
James Reisert replied, "The Town of Wolcott already more or less assumes that we are not gaining any water any where. We are only putting out the same amount of water that we were. Where our out fall lies we are only flooding property that it was already flooding. So we don’t feel like there is an issue other than we don’t want to make any body mad at what we are doing. We are going to have to find a way to keep more of the water for a longer period of time. I suspect so that we can satisfy every body."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "You are sort of land locked, you don’t own enough land to have a detention pond or any thing, it is sad but that is the way it is. With wanting to use the park and it not being yours that is your problem. Until you get something from them saying you can use the park. If you had a detention pond where you could store water you would be fine but you don’t."
Michael Yelton stated, "By putting a bigger tile in the ground. Right now our biggest tile is running down Fourth Street it is only an eight (8) inch. It is half full of mud and stuff any how so if we put a bigger tile in there and restricted it in the park we are not going to send any more water faster than it is getting out of town now then what it is going. But we are going to hold it back in town with our new tile."
Board Member Burton replied, "That may be what Todd (Frauhiger) recommends to us."
Chairman Schmierer stated, "This why we hire an engineer to review that."
Michael Yelton replied, "Right, I understand in a sense that is kind of our retention pond. We are going from an eight (8) inch tile that has only got the capacity of a four (4) inch. We are going to put in a fifteen (15) inch and go back to a twelve (12) and run a six (6) or an eight (8) inch off of that down the side street. Those are all going to hold water and it is not going to leave town any faster than it is right now because it is restricted."
Chairman Schmierer replied, "He could be right!"
Board Member Burton said, "We hope that is the case!"
Irvin Furrer was in attendance at the Drainage Board Meeting because he has an issue with putting tile in a field that drains into the Clarence Bossung Ditch. Board Member Heimlich also has property that drains into that ditch and knew that there where two beaver dams in the ditch. Irvin asked permission to remove the beaver dams. Board Member Heimlich gave him permission but told him that he should contract Tom’s Trap because the ditch is being trapped for beaver and Irvin should know where the traps are located.
Chairman Schmierer asked if there was anything further for the Drainage Board. Chairman Schmierer then adjourned the meeting.