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          April 18, 2011

 The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana.  Board members present were:  President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich.  Also present were Attorney George W.  Loy, Surveyor Bradley Ward and Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett.

 Also in attendance were:
 Sharon Watson-White County Soil and Water     
              Mike Stufflebeam-Flaherty & Collins-Project Manager Great Oaks Apartments
 Seth Johnson
 Todd Frauhiger Engineer - AECOM

 The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the April 4th, 2011 White County Drainage Board meeting.  Board Member Steve Burton so moved.  Board Member John Heimlich seconded the motion.  Motion carried unanimously.

Next on the agenda approve and sign Wolcott Storm Water Easement

 Chairman Schmierer stated, “Brad (Surveyor Ward) the first thing you have this morning is the approval of the signed Wolcott Storm Water Easement.  We got the easement and everything so….”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “Got the easement and plans.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “And the check?”

 Surveyor Ward replied. “And the check!”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Ok!” Chairman Schmierer then signed the documents.

Next on the agenda Great Oaks Apartment Revised Drainage Review

 Chairman Schmierer stated, “I had a call on this last week, one of the neighbors there…..I can’t think of his name, the older gentleman, that Mr. Deibel came in here with.”

 Engineer Frauhiger stated, “You remember we looked at this we just didn’t have the out lets designed at the time we actually talked about the concept.  Do you remember the ravine that was going through there was originally going to be used as a detention pond.  There was an easement secured from the church that the water was going to be ponded off site.  IDEM got involved and considered that ravine Waters of the State.  It was determined that Great Oaks would not be allowed to actually store water in the ditch itself.  They came up with three (3) different areas to put under ground storage in.”  Looking at the drainage plans for Great Oaks Apartments Engineer Frauhiger continued.  “One (1), Two (2) and Three (3) right here, they were going to be gravel French Drains.  At the time the foot prints got kind of large because it was a gravel bed.  Basically you have to make it forty percent (40%) larger because the stone takes up some of the volume that the water can pick up.  The only change that we found out about this morning… Every thing is the same, the calculations are the same, the volumes are the same.  But there is a concept that we are probably going to go with under ground tanks instead of gravel beds.  Which is actually better.  It will be a smaller foot print, same volume, and there will be access, you know man hole access.  Man hole access that you can get down to…”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where are they going to go to if they are under ground tanks?  Where is all the water going to go to?”

 Engineer Frauhiger continued, “They are all going in to the ravine.  IDEM is going to allow three (3) connections in to the ravine.  Showing the connections on the plan Engineer Frauhiger said, “Here, here and here.  Those are the discharges.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “Who was the older gentleman that came in here with Mr. Deibel do you remember?  You weren’t here!”

 Surveyor Ward answered, “I have only met Mr. Deibel.” 

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “He is the actual property owner.”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “Well, he had called me and he was concerned what it was going to do to him.  Where is his property at?  Does he own the ravine?”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “He was up stream, he wasn’t down stream.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “I thought he was too, I thought he was down here.”

 Mike Stufflebean said, “His property is right here!”

 Attorney Loy asked, “What is his name, do you recall?”

 Mike Stufflebean replied, “It is William Deibel!”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “No! No!  He is down here isn’t he?”

 Mike Stufflebean said, “Vigus, it is Vigus and he is right here!”
 Chairman Schmierer said, “He was quite concerned what it is going to do to him.”

 Engineer Frauhiger continued, “It is actually, because of using the under ground storage they have actually choked the…. it goes back to what we said before. They are meeting the ordinance, ten (10) year, two (2) year, hundred (100) year, ten (10) year.  So, it will actually decrease the volume of water that is going down stream. What it will do with in the detention pond decreases the peak they are going to see but makes the peak stretch out longer.  So, instead of seeing a higher peak that would have lasted for a couple of hours they will see a lower peak and a lower elevation mar that will go on as the under ground systems drain out. It won’t impact him adversely at all as far as volume of water.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Ok, he had called me and I said I didn’t know and I didn’t even know that they had changed the Drainage Plan.  He said that were changing the Drainage Plan that they were not going to be able to use the church.”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “He knew about it, we talked about it a couple months ago.  We brought it in and said they wanted to change to under ground storage.  But at that time they did not have the out lets designed so we didn’t take action on it.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “How big of tanks are they putting in?”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Oh…”

 Mike Stufflebean replied, “One (1) tank is nine hundred (900)cubic feet, one (1) tank is seven hundred (700) cubic feet and the other tank is five thousand, five hundred (5,500) cubic feet, that is the big one.  The big one drains basically the road, the club house, many of the front sides of the roof pitches and the side walks.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “He had called me and I said I didn’t know any thing about it because I didn’t know it was on the agenda for this morning.  That is reason why I was asking, he was quite concerned.  So you are saying it is not going to any more….”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “It is not going to have any adverse affect on Mr. Deibel at all.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “I am not talking about Mr. Deibel.  I am talking about Mr. Vigus.”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Right, Mr. Vigus!”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “……….I understand him being concerned I would be concerned too!”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “I think he was concerned when he came in with Mr. Deibel.  There have been no changes, they are still meeting the ordinance.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “All right!”

 Board Member Burton asked, “We are amending?”

 Engineer Frauhiger stated, “It was originally approved with detention in the ravine.  Now this is a complete resubmittal with under ground detention instead of that.”

 Board Member Burton asked, “So, are we amending this or are we starting…”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “It looks like it is a new Drainage Plan to me.”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “We could probably start over if you wanted to.”

 Attorney Loy replied, “Yeah, it is a complete Drainage Plan right here, right?”

 Engineer Frauhiger replied, “Yeah!”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “It takes the place or supersedes!”

 Attorney Loy answered, “I guess it specifically refers back to the other one but…”

 Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Did they pick up the other Drainage Permit?”

 Mike Stufflebean answered, “Yes!”

 Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Do you want them to use the same number with an “R” behind it or do you want to issue a new number?”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Issue a new number and say this one over rides that one.”

 Attorney Loy replied, “What ever you want to do.  In the minutes make reference if you would Mary (Drainage Assistant Sterrett) to the date of the prior one that…”


Great Oaks Apartments-Drainage Permit Number 115-dated 8/3/2010-Plan dated 5/04/10 copy attached to file copy of 4/18/2011 minutes

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “This one will replace that one Mary.”

 Board Member Burton made a motion to approve the Revised Drainage Plan for the Great Oak Apartments with a new Drainage Permit to be issued.  Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion.
Motion carried unanimously.

 Attorney Loy asked that on the signed and stamped Drainage Plan for Great Oaks Apartments to make reference that the new Drainage Plan and Drainage Permit will  replace the Drainage Plan that was approved on  8-2-2010 by the White County Drainage Board and the new Drainage Permit will replace or supersede Drainage Permit #115-dated 8-3-2010.

 Sharon Watson of the Soil and Water Department asked, “Could I make a comment too?  Soil and Water Conservation District did not get a revision plan.  I will need that for your Rule Five (5) Permit.  Have you addressed your Rule Five (5) violations on the last review?”

 Seth Johnson answered, “I do not know to be honest on that! Yeah, I don’t know!  We will when we get there.  Soil and Water Conservation is part of the last stint.”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “Is there any thing else on that?  Why didn’t you speak up before we approved it?”

 Sharon Watson replied, “That’s ok, I agree with trying to do some thing different.  For you folks it is fine but they do have some violations that need to be addressed.”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “We were not aware of that!”

Next on the agenda was discuss the approval to send quotes on F. McKillip Branch #1

 Surveyor Ward said, “At the last Board Meeting we had a question if this was a natural water way, it is not.  This Branch #1, I think that might have been my miscommunication because I was saying the Fern McKillip itself.  At the end of that where it drains in to the Monon that is natural.  (Looking at a computer generated map) Surveyor Ward said, “This is Jasper County right here so that is not a natural water way.  But what is happening at about the quarter (1/4) section line is that it is choking the flow.  It is about eight (8) feet wide then it goes down to about a foot and one half (11/2).”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “All right!  Are you going to send the quotes out for that?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “Yeah!  We have not got it all worked up yet.” 

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Fine!”

Next on the agenda was the discuss the Henry Stewart Tile Drain-Lynnora Blissitt Issue of 2005

 Surveyor Ward said, “Yeah!  That is the one south of Brookston!”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Goes through Lehes?”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “No, that is south of Forty-Three (43) remember she was in.”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “2005!”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “It says 2005 but I didn’t know it had been that long ago.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where is this at?”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “ Those houses on the east side of Forty-three (43) as you come out of Brookston.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Yeah, I know where that is.”

 Board Member Burton replied, “It crosses your brook down there at the bottom of the hill from your place crosses Forty-three (43) and goes behind those houses.  The Moots Creek!”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Goes in behind those houses on the east side of Forty-three (43).”

 Board Member Heimlich stated, “You remember Mrs. Blissitt  was in!”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Yeah, I remember that!”

 Board Member Heimlich continued, “It goes behind her house.”

 Surveyor Ward continued, “The tile is regulated were it drains in to the water way.  There is a water way that the tile drains in to before it gets to the Moots.  Probably one thousand (1000) feet roughly.  About five (5) years ago she was wanting that dipped out.  They could not get the land owners to agree to do any thing since it is not regulated.”

 Board Member Burton replied, “There was a lady there that works for the post office that went postal on Denny (Retired Surveyor) about that and that is where it stopped.”

 Surveyor Ward continued, “What happened before was letters were sent to the land owners to get that cleaned.  According to her, Mrs. Blissitt, they are all in agreement now.”

 Board Member Burton replied, “Because that house sold!”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “Yes, to do some thing to get that silt out of that three hundred (300) or four hundred (400) feet stretch there at the mouth of the tile.  My question to the Board is how do you want me to approach it?”

 Board Member Heimlich asked, “It is on the unregulated part?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “The only part that is regulated is the tile.  What was done before was that letters were sent to all those land owners and if they approved that could be cleaned on Maintenance, use the tile money on Maintenance.”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “But it was private property.”

 Surveyor Ward continued, “It was on private property.”

 Attorney Loy responded, “So, you can’t!”

 Board Member Burton replied, “You had a decision, an opinion on how to go about this and it has been long enough. What stopped this was that one owner.  We might be able to pull it up in the minutes.” 

 Surveyor Ward had the minutes of the previous White County Drainage Board Meetings dated 11-7-2005, 12-5-2005, 1-3-2006, & 2-6-2011 and  handed them to Attorney Loy.

 Board Member Heimlich stated, “Well, I guess it was our out let and we considered it an obstruction of our tile and that is how we justified to removing the obstruction.  I thought we had another one similar to that at about the same time.  It was a regulated part going in to a non-regulated part and there was an obstruction in the non-regulated part.”

 Attorney Loy (after reading the minutes of the previous Drainage Board meetings on this subject) stated, “It looks like my suggestion was to have every body agree to sign the jurisdiction back to the ….”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “At that point one land owner didn’t agree and that has changed hands apparently.”

 Attorney Loy asked, “Now they all agree?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “Supposedly they are all in agreement to have some thing done to have the silt build up removed.  I guess, I think it is doing the same thing that it was doing then probably.  It is hitting that obstruction and then flowing over ground before it gets back in to the Moots Creek.”

 Chairman Schmierer stated, “I would say you will have to send letters to all of them and get them to agree.”

 Attorney Loy replied, “To extend the jurisdiction as suggested in 2005.”
 Surveyor Ward replied, “We can do that!”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “What else do you have Brad (Surveyor Ward)?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “Just to let the Board know we are working on Maintenance Modifications on the ones that we talked about the last Drainage Board Meeting.  The Joseph Kellenburger, Errol Westfall and the A. P. Gladden #2, which is out on Parrish’s farm.”

 Surveyor Ward continued, “I did meet with Wayne Hunt last week,  He believes there are more people in the water shed on the J. T. Williams Ditch than are being assessed.  I told him we would look in to it and see what we can find.”

 Surveyor Ward continued, “Just for the Board’s knowledge there is a big wash out on the J. P. Carr.  About forty (40) feet off the ditch, about fifteen (15) feet wide and about five (5) feet deep.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “The J. P. Carr is down by Brookston.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “Where at?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “It is South of One Hundred Fifty (150) East were intersects Eight Hundred & Fifty (850) South, does that help you?  It is on Waugh’s old property.  John Brettnacher called in about it.  I have sent a work order to Tony Cain to have it repaired.  I think there is enough money in the fund to take care of it.”

 Chairman Schmierer stated, “ Chalmers (Storm Water Project) I see hasn’t laid any more pipe out there to hook that up.  It is laying all over the field out there.  Had you looked at where they are going to out let in to the J. P. Carr?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “I have taken pictures of it.”

 Engineer Frauhiger asked, “Have they put that man hole in yet?”

 Surveyor Ward answered, “I don’t know if it is connected back from the ditch.   I know the out let is in where it flows out on to the rip rap.”

 Chairman Schmierer asked, “But have they put the catch basin in to catch the water, the man hole,  that is what you asked wasn’t it?”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “I don’t know about that.”

 Chairman Schmierer said, “I don’t know if it is or not.  It didn’t look like it.”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “I can go look, I have to go that way tomorrow to look at some thing else.”

 Engineer Frauhiger stated, “That’s key that man hole has to go in.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “You got a couple of farmers down there that gave them permission to put that through as long as they had an out let in to it.  Now, it is going to be pressurized they don’t have an out let.   I had one farmer tell me that he plans on talking to them about it to get some thing to take care of it until he gets an out let.  I told him I didn’t know if you could put an out let in to a pressurized or not.  I didn’t think you could.”

 Engineer Frauhiger said, “No, but…...”

 Board Member Heimlich replied, “That is the question I thought about before, they got easements based on that.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Well, they did!  Wayne Danner was one of them.  There was a couple of guys that was supposed to have….”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “The Co-op was suppose to use that for drainage too.”

 Chairman Schmierer replied, “Right, but they can’t!”

 Surveyor Ward replied, “No, I would not think so.”

 Engineer Frauhiger stated, “That is a really good point, may be they will end up going to parallel gravity or some thing.”

 Chairman Schmierer stated, “I don’t know what they are going to do.  Like I said that was called  to my attention.  I said well they went with force feeding and I don’t think you are going to hook in to force feed.”      

 With nothing else for the White County Drainage Board Chairman Schmierer adjourned the April 18th, 2011 White County Drainage Board Meeting.