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August 1, 2011


The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:30 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana.  Board members present were:  President Ronald Schmierer, Vice President Steve Burton, and Drainage Board Member John Heimlich.  Also present were Attorney George W.  Loy, Surveyor Bradley Ward and Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett.

Also in attendance were:

Sharon Watson-White County Soil and Water
Walter Hough
James Phillips
Ed & Linda Forsythe


The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the July 18th, 2011 White County Drainage Board Meeting.  Board Member Steve Burton so moved.  Board Member John Heimlich seconded the motion.  Motion carried unanimously.

Next on the agenda-Harp-Helfrick-Walter Hough
Viewing pictures presented by Walter Hough & Surveyor Ward

Surveyor Ward stated, “Walt you are up, I guess.”

Walter Hough stated, “These are for you guys and the pictures are for you too.  We got pictures and this is a letter of our matter of concerns up there.  These pictures like this are last year’s pictures and these are the recent pictures.  You can see how it is just nothing but completely filled in.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “That is the same ditch as you got on the screen as you got here?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “No, these are the ones that I took last week.”

Walter Hough said, “Some of those are what he took last week, you can see what I took and some of them are from last year.  The problem that we have got Gentlemen is where the water comes out from under the tank cars and goes around this way.  That land right there use to be all open with water.  Now is just solid completely filled in.  Where that water goes around there is enough sand coming out that way that it is going to go directly across and it is going to lock everything off there.  It won’t go out so the canals back there that is completely dried off.  They are just going to dry up there is no way.  The concern is to everybody is what it is going to do to the property value.  That is what is going to happen it is going to drop the property value down to a little of nothing.   Mr. and Mrs. Grady their letter that I set there.  They just built a brand new multi-million dollar, I mean One Hundred Thousand Dollar ($100,000.00) home.  They have already lost the value of their home because of the fact that at one time it was seven (7) to eight (8) foot deep in front of their house.  Now it is down to nothing.  The canal that goes all the way out from the pit to all the way out to the lake it is down to where it is two (2) or three (3) inches.  Looking at what it is and what concerns me, I may be wrong correct me if I am wrong.  All that water that comes in there especially when we have a flood it comes to a high ground and comes all the way up.  If that was not that shallow back there you know.  Several years ago I talked the SFLECC they were looking at getting a grant for Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand ($250,000.00) to get that cleaned out.  Who knew the economy was going to do what it did.  The State loss funding and everything else, so that lost that.  Trying to get those pits cleaned out.  We have talked to Congressman Donnelly about maybe trying to get a grant trying to get these cleaned up.  That is our biggest concern as you can see; let me walk over to the picture.  That use to come this way now this is all solid all the way across.  It comes out this way, comes around this way all that sand is going to go straight across.  It will be nothing but a solid island here and a solid island here.  That water is probably going to come down to about a trickle going out to the river.  It is a problem that we really need to address and look at.  How can we do that?  That is why I am here this morning to see if we can look at it and see what kind of a problem do we have.  The value of the property and homes of course with the economy like it is property values are going to go down.  I was just down at the Assessor’s Office and said it is only going to get worse.  See that Gentlemen, there you go.  For some reason for the last few days or last two (2) or three (3) weeks tons of sand has been pouring in there.  Where it is coming from I don’t know but it is all solid sand and it is going to go straight across.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Has there been big rains up north that we don’t know about?”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “Essentially two (2) or three (3) weeks ago we had be up north and come back the water was flowing through like crazy.  Then the next couple of days when it went down it was just like three (3) more inches of sand had flowed in.  That is our house up there.  We watch it daily more sands flowing in, flowing in and flowing in.”

Walter Hough asked, “Are they cleaning out any ditch way up north?”

Chairman Schmierer answered, “Not in White County.”

Surveyor Ward replied, “We cleaned the Helfrick last year, last fall.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “That is not last week.”

Surveyor Ward said, “That should not have any effect on it right now.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “No.”

Surveyor Ward stated, “Part of the problem might be that the water level is actually going down right now.  So, it looks like the sand is coming up.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “Oh no!”

Surveyor Ward continued, “I am not saying that there is not a problem there.  I am saying with the water level going down it could appear that there is more sand.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “We live there and we see it daily.”

Walter Hough replied, “You come up there and see how much every day tons of sand flowing in there.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “I walk out on my porch and look at it every day.  It goes out farther and farther every day.”

Walter Hough replied, “You know the answer they gave is the water is flowing.  Well, at what point is the water going to quit flowing.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “It is not flowing as much as it use to, it is not near as much as it use to be.  We flooded two (2) years in a row, a couple of years ago.”

Mr. Phillips said, “I live almost to the right up there where that comes on around.  There is a channel up to me.  I use to ride a jet ski up to my house.  I can’t even get through to get close to my house now.”

Walter Hough replied, “You can’t even get a flat bottom boat in there anymore.”

Board Member Burton asked, “How does the old gravel pit, at what point does it become unregulated?”

Surveyor Ward answered, “I believe the regulation stops at the ditch but it is a straight line from those culverts.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “It stops at the road.  It stops on the north side of the road.  When Denny (Retired Surveyor) and I were out there the map brings you down to the north side of the road.  It does not go under the road.  That is where our problem is.”

Walter Hough stated, “Let me ask you a question and I am only going because of talking to the older people that live there and have been there for years.  Again, correct me if I am wrong.  Back in 1952 or 1953 the old “Moresrun Creek” use to run from that right there straight down in to the river.  There was nothing back there.  Then they came along and they dug all those pits out.  Bob Richey when he was alive and some of the older people that were alive told me how that was all done.  That was thirty (30) foot deep at one time back there. Then going back and talking to J. R. Smith.  He said up there at Charlie Mellon’s up along  CR 650 going all the way up to the County Line they dug all that out up there.  I remember that years ago, all that dirt and silt was piled up there.  Never cleaned up just left there.  Over the years that just rained and ran right back down to the ditch and came right back down to this creek.  If I remember what they told me, Mr. Palmer had built that bridge across there going into Palmer. Then the County put the tank cars in there.  You did that for a reason, there had to be reason that was done.  Was that because of the regulated ditch or what was that because of?”

Chairman Schmierer answered, “The County put a road in, the County Highway has nothing to do with the ditches.  That is just a road.   Walt, what you are up against here is it is regulated to the road.  So, consequently if we are going to do anything in there it is going to have to be paid for by the land owners.  The County Ditches are maintained by the farmers out there.  It is paid for the County farmers we do not pay for it.  It is not a tax it is just maintenance fee that they pay.  So where you are up against here is that you don’t have anybody up there wanting to spend any money on it.  They don’t have any money to spend on it.  I think your biggest bet would be go to SFLECC and see if they can clean it out with their dredge or something.  Because we have no way to clean it out.”

Walter Hough replied, “SFLECC got with me several years ago and that is what I was trying to explain.  For Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars ($250,000.00) they would clean all those pits, those two (2) canals going up, out to the river, down behind the Buffalo Discount House and you would go down to where Howard Ruemler lived.   That would all be cleaned out back in there to a depth of ten (10) feet.  For around Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand Dollars ($250, 000.00).  We applied for a grant due to economy, the State and everything else it was all cut off.   The next step we were working on was having Congressman Donnelly come out to see if we could get a Federal grant.  We would like to get that cleaned.  I know at one time the County did all this up here.  They had that all cleaned out and then there was a confutation with a land owner right here I understand that.  So, that is when they stopped.”

Attorney Loy replied, “As Ron alluded to you the cost of that is paid for not by the County.  The County contracts with the contractors to do the work but the cost is paid by the land owners.”

Walter Hough asked, “So when that was a dug out several years ago where did that money come from?” 

Mrs. Forsythe said, “When I wrote to the Congressman and told them the problem.   They came back and said it had to do with the Drainage Board.  Two different ones Drainage Board, they take care of it they told me.”

Attorney Loy replied, “Absolutely, absolutely, you bet and assessed to the landowners.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “That is not what they said.  They said that is the Drainage Board and my husband stood there and heard them say that.”

Attorney Loy replied, “You were misinformed.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “No, he was not misinformed he heard them say it.  He stood right next to them when they looked at it and they said we are supposed to take care of this every two years.  They haven’t done anything to it for fifteen (15) years.”

Attorney Loy asked, “They who?”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “They, Denny and some of them who came out to our house.”

Mr. Forsythe said, “A Commissioner when they were both out there he read off a paper saying that you are supposed to maintenance this every two (2) years.”

Attorney Loy stated, “Folks, I am telling you what the law is!”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “It has not been maintained for years.”

Mr. Forsythe responded, “We asked about that letter and you said there was no such thing.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “He saw it!  He stood there and watched them read it.”

Mr. Forsythe responded, “I wasn’t twenty-five (25) feet from when you told him you were supposed to maintain it.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Who told who?”

Mr.  Forsythe said, “That is when you both jumped in the car and said I will see you in a meeting.”

Board Member Burton asked, “In a what?”

Mrs.  Forsythe said, “Denny is not up there.  Whoever was there, it was Dennis and someone else.  He was out there with them when they said that.  We have been at several meeting since then and no one wants to do a thing or admit to whatever they are supposed to do.”

Attorney Loy stated, “This is the White County Drainage Board, ok.  By law they are given the authority to make decisions with regard to the construction, maintenance and modifications of regulated drains.  This is apparently the Harp-Helfrick Regulated Drain.  By law when there is any work to be done we either bid or through quote process hire contractors to do that.  But the cost of that is allocated among the land owners who are benefited by and or drain into the water shed.”

Mrs. Forsythe interrupting Attorney Loy said, “  ...inaudible...where we don’t get a benefit from it.  Where we get flooded and costs us thousands of dollars a year.  The one (1) lady lost her whole house due to this.  What benefit is that to us?”

Attorney Loy replied, “That is not our responsibility……..”

Mrs. Forsythe continued, “What is the benefits going to be to you when the water is not flowing at all. Because eventually it is filling in so bad it is not going to flow.  It is not going out to the river.  Isn’t that suppose to drain to the river? Eventually it is not going to drain to the river.”

Attorney Loy replied, “I am not going to argue one way or the other on that.  I am just saying the costs; there isn’t a general fund out there where the costs are paid for by the land owners.  It might be a more expensive…..”

Mrs. Forsythe again interrupting Attorney Loy said, “ ….inaudible …back when they bought the house that should be stipulated to people when they buy a property that it has got to be paid by them to keep it up.”

Attorney Loy replied, “Ma’am that is the law!”  

Mrs. Forsythe said, “It wasn’t law few years ago!”

Attorney Loy replied, “That has been the law forever!”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “This is the first time we have ever heard that!”

Attorney Loy offered, “Well, maybe this is the first time you have talked to an Attorney about it.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “No, the Attorney was sitting up there!”

Attorney Loy said, “That was me!  That’s me!”

Walter Hough asked, “My question again, when they cleaned that out years ago were did the money come from?”

Attorney Loy answered, “I don’t know what you are talking….”

Mrs.  Forsythe asked, “What happened to the money?”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Why did they clean it out?”

Walter Hough stated, “The early nineties because they came right out there, Mike Ezra did.  Came over there all this property.  He came up to here he dug all this, he dug all this and he piled it over there. …he cleaned it, he cleaned and he cleaned it.  Several truck loads of silt and sand were taken out of there.  Where did the money come from?  We didn’t pay for it, nobody assessed us.”

Inaudible- Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Mrs. Forsythe asked, “Where did the money go that was in our ditch tax? I though the ditch tax was supposed to take care of that.  That would be the money from the land owners.  There was like nineteen (19) or twenty (20) thousand where did it go?  They haven’t done anything out there.  Where is the money from that, from our ditch tax from before?”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Are you assessed on the ditch, the Harp-Helfick?”

Mr.  Forsythe answered, “We haven’t had a ditch tax for years.”

Mrs. Forsythe offered, “We paid tax for years now they have stopped it.  When we were coming to meeting before there was nineteen (19) or twenty (20) thousand dollars so where did that money go. What did they use it for?  They have not done anything out there?  Where did the money go?”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “So everybody in that area are assessed on that or not?”

Walter Hough replied, “No, we haven’t been assessed on that since 2003.”

Inaudible- Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Surveyor Ward stated, “I don’t know how far down the assessments go, I don’t know who all is assessed on it.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “It was longer than 2003.”

Surveyor Ward stated, “No, 2003 was the last time that ditch was assessed.”

Inaudible- Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Mrs. Forsythe asked, “The last time we were at a meeting I got a paper from downstairs that there was Nineteen Thousand Dollars ($19,000.00) in there, where did that money go?”

Attorney Loy continues, “We will be happy to answer that question.  Now, you are the folks that have the house that is built on the berm of the ditch, right?”

Mrs. Forsythe answered, “Right there that blue house.  So where is the ditch tax where did it go?  Where did the Nineteen Thousand Dollars ($19,000.00) go? That is not near enough to take of it.”

Attorney Loy replied, “The books are open you can check for yourself.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “Well, they sure didn’t do anything out there!”

Attorney Loy replied, “Well, apparently you didn’t contribute to it either.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “Oh yes we did we had ditch tax taken out every year, now we have noticed they have stopped the ditch tax.  I think they did that purposely so they would not have to do…take care of this.  But there was money in there a few years ago.   There was like Eighteen Thousand Dollars ($18,000.00).”

Surveyor Ward said, “There is Eighteen Thousand Dollars ($18,000.00) in the account.”

Board Member Heimlich stated, “That is probably why it stopped because it gets above a certain level …you don’t collect on it.”

Surveyor Ward replied, “When it gets above Fourteen Thousand Dollars ($14,000.00) we stop collecting on it.”

Inaudible-Multiple Conversations                         See Digital Minutes

Mr. Phillips asked, “Did anybody ever think about using that money up as it comes in instead of where it doesn’t just sit there?  If this would have been taken care years ago with that ditch money it would be in the shape that it is now.”

Mrs. Forsyth replied, “That is right! That is what I am trying to say to them!”

Mr. Phillips said, “Nobody can answer that, huh?”

Board Member Heimlich said, “I would like to go back to the minutes back when we discussed this and I think we offered to clean that out but we had an issue with the house.”

Mr. Phillips continued, “It is like your car if there is something a little wrong with if you fix it now it doesn’t turn into something major.”

Inaudible-Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Attorney Loy stated, “We will pull the minutes for when you folks were here before.  Part of the problem is you have a house where it shouldn’t be and you know that is the way it is.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “This is way out this wouldn’t even bother our house this is going way out into the middle it has nothing to do with our house.”

Mr. Forsythe said, “....they shouldn’t have allowed it to get built.”

Attorney Loy said, “It is the law folks, you can’t build a house out in the middle of the street.”

Mr. Forsythe stated, “Why was it allowed to be built, I didn’t have it built.  I bought it that way!”

Attorney Loy stated, “It is your job….”

Mr.  Forsythe replied, “No, it is you job!”

Attorney Loy replied, “No, it isn’t! No, it isn’t!”

Mrs. Forsythe stated, “We had the title company all that checked and everything was fine when we bought the house.  Where we are talking about where it has got so bad.  It is by the front of our house and it is going in the middle too.  It is affecting other people’s property and stuff.  Not just ours it is everybody out there, not just us.  I already talked to our insurance company about it and he said he never heard of such a thing.  He said we wouldn’t be even to allow to do anything like that.”

Attorney Loy asked, “Where did he get his Law Degree, your insurance man?”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “Our insurance man would not allow us to sign anything or do anything.  Because we have State Farm Insurance.  Your insurance would not allow you to do anything because if anything happens they wouldn’t be liable either then we are be stuck.”

Attorney Loy replied, “I see, thank you.”

Attorney Loy continued, “We will pull the minutes from that meeting that you are referring to.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “We have been to several meetings.”

Inaudible-Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Attorney Loy stated, “Folks we are answering questions here, pop quizzes on the fly here.  Your
question about how it was paid for previously?  From that fund I am sure it was.  We will check the records but there is where that would have come from.”

Walter Hough asked, “Can I ask a question?  If that is where it came from and there is money there, this County Ditch I know that is what we talked about before.  This County Ditch forget that, this here and this here.”

Board Member Burton stated, “But if you go back and pull the minutes of our discussion what we do up there affects that.”

Walter Hough replied, “The last time they did it they dipped here and here, it did not bother this what so ever.  I understand what your concerns are; your concerns are what will happen here.  Well, nothing happened there before.  Nothing!  Mike Ezra come over he did a great job of cleaning that.  Did not affect this here at all, done what so ever.  That is the concern, the water then is going to go this way where it should.  Right now it is going this way, going over this way and choking everything off.  That is a concern that we are looking at.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Well, we are only going to clean down at the outlet is all we are going to do.  If we do anything it will just be the outlet out of the ditch.  We are not going to go out into the pits.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “You did before!”

Board Member Burton added, “Or the canals.”

Mrs. Forsythe asked, “How come you did it before and you are not going to do it now?”

Chairman Schmierer answered, “They are not going to go out in the canal.  They are just going out in their right of way at the end of the ditch. Just to the outlet they are going to go that far.   I don’t think they went to the canals before.”

Walter Hough said, “No! No!  Right there is where they went the last time.  They cleaned it out the water then went straight.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “They cleaned out the islands before, they did it before.”

Walter Hough stated, “Those islands were all cleaned out the water then flowed straight.  Then all the sand came in, stopped right there and choked it off.  That is all we are asking.  That was done before and I am sure that it was paid for out of that money.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “George (Attorney Loy) went to get a statute to see where we are at.”

Mrs. Forsythe stated, “We even told them before that when they took that and dug it they could pile it up on the side of our house over there.  They could pile it up and we would even put grass seed and stuff. Where they didn’t have to take it very far.”

Walter Hough continued, “Because the SFLECC when I had them up there a few years ago.  They said what are we going to do with all that stuff.  We had a place for Geo tubes to go down by Rich Buss’ place.  They had room for all those Geo tubes and where all the stuff was going to be pumped to. Those Geo tubes and all the water would run it back off into the river.  The silt would be there for whoever wanted it.  The same thing they were doing down on Freeman.  Like I said they lost funding and everything else and there you go.  That is the only thing that concerns me is when that was cleaned out before I know the County did it.  Can that be done again?  That is all!  There is no way you are going to go out there and do the whole thing, we understand that. Right in there and right there that would make the water flow straight again like that and be no problems what so ever.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “Well, it needs a silt trap or something so that silt doesn’t keep coming in there.  I worry about kids out there want to come over and play.  I am afraid they are going to get stuck and drown out there, the silt is so bad.”

Mr. Phillips stated, “If that is just straightened out that is really not going to do any, it will do some good now but what is going to stop it from doing it again?  They will need to go back up stream where this has come from and correct the problem up there.  Make some kind of a catch basin like and go in there every couple of years and clean it out.”

Walter Hough asked, “I think you guys talked about that one time didn’t you Ron (Chairman Schmierer)?”

Mr. Phillips said, “That will interfere with the farmers!”

Chairman Schmierer answered, “I don’t know. We have put silt traps in before but they didn’t get maintained properly and if they don’t get maintained properly they are just worthless.”

Walter Hough asked, “How many years ago was that when they dug that?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “It was the early nineties. I don’t have the exact date.”

Walter Hough said, “Right back out here is where he dug, he dug and he dug.  It was like a silt trap, a nice deep one. Over two (2) or three (3) years there it was filled right back up again.”

Mrs. Forsythe offered, “That all that has been used for is a silt trap.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “It is not the only place around the lake like the Hoagland and everything else they are dipped in all the time.”

Walter Hough stated, “The biggest problem all this is going down to the lake and there the lake is filling in.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “The Tippecanoe River used to be way deep and now you can walk across it. Now it is filling in the Tippecanoe.”

Mr. Phillips asked, “Can’t they get the DNR involved in this?”


Walter Hough replied, “I have had everybody I can think of out there looking at this. It all comes down to one (1) answer, Drainage Board.”

Inaudible-Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Chairman Schmierer replied, “I am sure DNR would have to be involved if we go very far past our regulations.  I am not sure what ….”

Walter Hough stated again, “Ron, I mean, I have had as many as I can think of have them come up to look at that. They looked at it and said well, it is Drainage Board, it is Drainage Board.  So it has got to the point somewhere we are just asking for something to be done.  Then again you know where that was all dug out at one time can that be dug out again?  That is all we are asking.  I know there is no way you can get up where we are at there is no way.  If we can try to get a grant to get that taken care of.  The SFLECC I had Darrell (Johns) and all them up there he said this is our biggest problem it is all washing down and going right into the lake.  They are fighting it.  Their down there cleaning it and here it comes all back again.”

Mr. Phillips said, “Where that empties into the river out there. There is a buildup right there you guys have got to go out at an angle to get out of it with a boat.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “We donated money years ago just to get that open so people could get out.  We paid Diener-Best to dig it out and the canal.”

Walter Hough stated, “I appreciate you guys sitting and listen to us we know it is a problem.  We are just trying to maybe get some answers.”

Board Member Heimlich replied, “I know the issue when we discussed it before was access to get in there.  Whenever it was done it was before our time.  Back the early nineties or late eighties I don’t think that garage was across there.”

Walter Hough replied, “That shed if you take where Ed’s house, the blue house, and go across right over there is a shed. There was gravel laid down into there a gravel lane, that shed was there.  That is where they came in to clean that out.   Jeff said there is no problem, he had no problem having access out in there to get that taken care of.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “That is on the east side?”

Walter Hough replied, “Right, he has no problem with that what so ever.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “There is no way to get in on the west side at all?”

Walter Hough replied, “Nope! You would have to come in the east side where that beige trailer is.”

Board Member Burton stated, “Mike had said that garage or whatever it is barn, would have to be moved for him to get his equipment in there.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “It looks like there is enough room without moving that though.”

Board Member Burton replied, “Well, that was a professional’s opinion.”

Mr.  Forsythe replied, “They got in there before without moving that shed.”

Walther Hough said, “The shed was there when they got in there the last time, that shed was never moved.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “There is plenty of room.”

Board Member Burton replied, “Mike didn’t think he could get his equipment in.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “You might have to move the tent out in the road or something.  Jeff don’t care he said whatever it takes.  When he bought that he has lost like Thirty Thousand Dollars ($30,000.00) on that property since that water.  We have lost a lot of money.”

Mr. Forsythe said, “It has got to the point where you could build another house out there.”

Walter Hough stated, “Like I said again all we are looking at is right in there to get that cleaned.  That would help a lot that really would.  We aren’t asking for the whole pit because there is no way you are going to do it.”

Mr.  Phillips said, “Don’t say all that because that is going to affect everybody that has right of way to that water.  I live over here to the right of that and I can’t get up to my place on the water which originally was a selling point for the place.  I got a jet ski that doesn’t set that low in the water and I still can’t get up there.  I am dragging the  mud all the way up through there.  The start of one (1) canal over there.” 

Walter Hough said, “Straight ahead where I live, I know what you are saying. I know where you are at.  If something isn’t done in six (6) months there will be no water in front of your house at all.”

Mrs. Forsythe replied, “It is filled in so bad we had to move our boat out to the island. We have to park on the island. The sand just kept coming in so bad that it just filled it up.  The water get high when it rains you are ok but when it goes down the sand it is just terrible.”

Walter Hough continued, “I may be wrong but I don’t think I am.  When the floods come that is just like flat land and the water comes up.  The bigger the bath tub the more water it holds.”

Mr. Phillips said, “Digging that out is not going to stop flooding.  Water reaches a level anything that comes….just like that pitcher over there that is at a level.  When you got water coming into it that builds up.  That is not going to hold any more on the bottom I don’t care if it is a hundred (100) feet deep or ten (10) feet deep.”


Inaudible-Multiple Conversations            See Digital Minutes

Chairman Schmierer stated, “I think what we will do is go through the minutes from the last time you were here and work on it to see where we stand.  We will have the Attorney (Attorney Loy) investigate what can be done.”

Walter Hough replied, “I would appreciate that, anything that you could do.”

Attorney Loy responded, “I gave you a copy of that statutes folks.  I think I gave you a copy the last time.  Take a look at that and that has to do with the seventy-five (75) foot right of way from the crest of the ditch….”

Mrs. Forsythe interrupted, “We are not even worried about that we are talking about way out in front of the guy’s next door house and then right across the thing.  We are not talking doing anything along the side of our house.  We are talking about where the sand comes in the front. It is not going to affect our house one bit and across the way.  We are not talking about anything that is going to affect our house.”

Attorney Loy replied, “Well, I am right now and I am giving that to you……..”

Several Inaudible Words Spoken         See Digital Minutes

Attorney Loy continued, “I am not talking engineering, I am talking the law and I would suggest that you contract your own Attorney.  Not an insurance agent, not your title company but a lawyer if you want to talk about the law.  Get some independent legal advice.”

Board Member Burton stated, “Another thing we can find out where our regulation point is. If it is the County Road that makes a huge difference.”

Attorney Loy replied, “We may need to do a Maintenance Modification, down the road.”

Walter Hough stated, “I did not know that the regulation stopped on the north side of the road.”

Chairman Schmierer said, “Denny and I was out there, he had a map and that is where it stopped.”

Walter Hough replied, “I did not know that.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “That is normally the case with regulated drains.  When they get close to the river the regulation stops it is more a natural…”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “You take the Hoagland out here it stops at County Road 300.  How far is that from the lake Walt?”

Walter Hough replied, “A long ways.”

Chairman Schmierer said, “See what I am saying.  Some of that stuff stops….”

Walter Hough replied, “I presumed that it just continued on out since that was the old creek bed run out that way.  I am presuming that it went that way.”

Chairman Schmierer continued, “There are a lot of creeks that are not monitored.  There is Moots Creek down there it is not monitored, we do not do any with it stuff like that.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “Seventy-five (75) feet which seventy-five (75) feet goes out that is what we want out.  It is not talking about alongside our house.  Seventy-five (75) foot length. ”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “We have right of way seventy-five (75) feet from both ways from the center of the ditch.”

Mrs. Forsythe said, “Then why don’t you get out there and do something!”

Attorney Loy replied, “No! No! From the top of bank each way.”

Chairman Schmierer said, “From the top of bank we have seventy-five (75) foot of right of way to work in.”

Mrs. Forsythe remarked, “……..then you can get through on the east side.”


Next on the agenda-Open Quotes on the Errol J. Westfall Maintenance Project

Attorney Loy stated, “Errol J. Westfall Drain #651 we have two (2) quotes.”

The quotes were as follows:

County Line Tiling/Excavating:  $9,500.00
Gutwein Bulldozing & Excavating:      $13,600.00

Chairman Schmierer asked, “What was your estimate Brad (Surveyor Ward)?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “My estimate was Twenty Thousand ($20,000.00). I must have been high.”

Board Member Burton made the motion to approve the low quote of County Line Tiling/Excavating for the Maintenance Project on the Errol J. Westfall Drain #651. In the amount of Nine Thousand, Five Hundred Dollars ($9,500.00).  Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion.  Motion carried unanimously.

Next on the agenda-Update on the Henry Stewart Drain

Surveyor Ward stated, “I have an estimate to remove silt on six hundred (600) feet from the outlet of the tile.  Make the channel about eight (8) foot wide and kind of clean up the banks a little bit.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Is that down at Brookston?”

Surveyor Ward said, “The one behind Lynnora Blissitt. He quoted me at Thirty-two Hundred Dollars ($3,200.00).  That was just dipping, not removing the dirt.  I believe Ray Hardesty will be taking the dirt from the channel, he wanted the silt. I don’t have it in writing.  That is kind of where that is at.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “He is close isn’t he?” 

Surveyor Ward answered, “Yes, he is right on the channel, it is his backyard basically.  There is only Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00) in the fund as of today.”

Board Member Burton asked, “Is it collecting?”

Surveyor Ward answered, “Yes, it is being collected on right now.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “You don’t know how much is collected yet this year do you?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “Yes, Four Hundred and Fifty-five Dollars ($455.00).”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “Did you include that in your Two Thousand Dollars ($2,000.00)?”

Surveyor Ward answered, “No.  So, we are still at Twenty Five Hundred Dollars ($2,500.00).”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “Your estimate was Thirty Two Hundred Dollars ($3,200.00).”

Surveyor Ward said, “Thirty Two Hundred Dollars ($3,200.00) and change.”

Chairman Schmierer asked, “You just have the one quote?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “I was just talking to him and Lynnora recommended him.  She works with him.  I didn’t think it would be that much when I was talking to the guy out there.”

Attorney Loy said, “Get Two (2) more.”

Chairman Schmierer stated, “Get two (2) more quotes, it might not be that much, but get two (2) more quotes.”

Surveyor Ward said, “Personally I thought it was high.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “I never even heard of the guy before.”

Surveyor Ward stated, “We haven’t used him in the office.  It is kind of what he does.”

Chairman Schmierer replied, “Just get quotes and go from there.”



Next discussed-Indian Creek

Surveyor Ward said, “The Indian Creek the update on that is it is under Judicial Review.  We have a meeting.  There is a lot of stuff in that. ”

Board Member Heimlich replied, “What is that, not a surprise, we got a meeting next week.”

Surveyor Ward replied, “Yeah, a meeting next week and find out what is going on there.”


Next discussed-Town of Wolcott’s Drainage Review
Looking at the computer generated Approved Drainage Review Plans

Surveyor Ward said, “Wolcott they are wanting to change part of their plan.  I have been in contract with Todd (Frauhiger) about it.  If you remember the weir wall, I believe I said that correctly, was this.  They are wanting to change that to a pipe.”

Board Member Burton asked, “A pipe and what?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “They are going to build like an earthen dam.  It will basically be this.  They are going to change it to a pipe.  Todd (Frauhiger) has looked at it and he said it basically reduces the flow. He agrees and he likes this better.  I have his letter.”

Board Member Burton asked, “What are they going to do outside the pipe with the water flow, anything?”

Surveyor Ward answered, “It is all going to be dumped into that side ditch, and I don’t think that has changed.  It was just changing from the weir wall outlet to a pipe outlet but it will reduce the flow.”

Board Member Burton asked, “My concern is that will increase your water speed pressure to the pipe and once it exits the pipe there is going to be a remedy still there for that?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “I don’t know if they sent anything on that.”

Board Member Burton asked, “Do you see where I am going?”

Surveyor Ward replied, “I agree with you, it will be coming out of there.” 



The August 1, 2011 White County Drainage Board meeting was adjourned.