Get Adobe Flash player

October 17, 2011

The White County Drainage Board convened at 10:45 A. M. in the Commissioners’ Room of the White County Building, Monticello, Indiana.  Board members present were:  Chairman Steve Burton, Drainage Board Member John Heimlich and Drainage Board Member David Diener .  Also present were Attorney George W. Loy, Surveyor Bradley Ward and Drainage Assistant Mary Sterrett. 

Also in attendance were:

Sharon Watson-White County Soil and Water    Michael A. Veejhuizen   
Todd Frauhiger P.E.-AECOM            Helen L. George
Brown, Jeff                    John Dyrek
Joel Putt                        Mike Reynolds
Micheal L. Collins                Luther Melton           
Jimmie W.  Powers                Barry Young
Alvin F. Smith                    Brian Putt
Kerry Wheeldon                    Ronda Wheeldon
Scott Allen                     and others                   

The October 17th, 2011 White County Drainage Board was called to order by Chairman Steve Burton.

The first item on the agenda was to approve the minutes from the October 3rd, 2011 White County Drainage Board Meeting.  Board Member Heimlich so moved.  Board Member Diener seconded the motion.  Motion carried unanimously.

Next on the agenda-JBW PORK, LLC & B&B PORK, INC. Drainage Review
Viewing a computer generated plan and a paper plan

Drainage Review of JBW Pork, LLC & B&B Pork, Inc. presented by Todd Frauhiger P.E.-AECOM. 

Engineer Frauhiger stated, “What is proposed here is two (2) buildings, two (2) production buildings, some gravel around the north end of the production buildings and a driveway to get in from County Road 200.  Currently the site has a drainage divide that basically goes through the site.  A portion of the site drains to the north and another portion of the site drains to the south.  In order to catch all the drainage and meet the drainage ordinance the engineer is proposing two (2) detention ponds. One (1) to the south portion of the property and one (1) to the north side of the property.  Those ponds will drain into existing field tile systems.  The north pond is restricted to a three (3) inch outlet; it drains into this eight (8) inch tile main.  The south pond is restricted also to a three (3) inch outlet which drains into this four (4) inch which goes out to this ditch.  The calculations were completed by a firm out of Indianapolis which I have not dealt with before, DB Engineering.  I understand that Mike is here with the drainage calculations I have spent substantial time reviewing his calculations.  Rerunning it on my own just to make absolutely sure that we have all the I’s dotted and the T’s crossed.  This proposed plan actually exceeds the ordinance of the hundred (100) year storm.  Meets the ordinance of the ten (10) year storm and reduces flow down to the two (2) year storm with basically nothing coming off the site.  Two (2) year storm discharge is about 0.6 cfs, ten (10) year storm discharge is about 1.5 cfs and hundred (100) year storm discharge is about 5.4 cfs.  They all exceed what is required in the ordinance.  DB used a computer program called Hydro-Cad it is based on the TR-20 and TR-55 computer programs which I used over the week-end to confirm their calculations. I basically hit their calculations.” 

Chairman Burton asked if there was anything additional and if there was anyone at this meeting representing JBW LLC and B&B Pork, Inc. if they had anything to add.

Joel Putt replied, “I’m Joel Putt representing JBW Pork and I live in Francesville, Indiana.  B&B Pork will be the second barn they are not here but I’m representing them on their behalf.”

Chairman Burton asked if Mr. Putt wanted to add anything to the review and he replied  he didn’t think so.  Chairman Burton also asked the audience if anyone had any questions or comments for Engineer Frauhiger or Surveyor Ward.

Mr. John Dyrek replied, “My name is John Dyrek, Monon Township.  I am going to be within a mile and one half (1½) or two (2) miles of the propose site.  I have not heard a thing or a plan from these two (2) companies as a contingency plan.  You know what that means if something goes wrong what happens?  What is the company going to do about it?  Such as polluting, drying my well up, who is going to pay for that?  I want to see a hundred million dollar ($100,000,000.00) bond.  The company be bonded every year and registered at or with the Court House.  That is in case something does happen there is money to repair or fix the problem.  If the County approves this or State approves this and there is no bond then what happens to the people in the area.  You wipe out a whole town with pollution who is going to pay for it?  Who is going to buy the property?  There is no plan all it is a business thing here that it is going to drain.  The computer says it works, well we know about computer programs.  They are always updating and they are always crashing.  They don’t know what is under the ground.  I want to be assured that if you people approve this that I have someone to come back on and say hey,  you have got to pump water to my house.  I need two hundred (200) gallons a day to exist at my place.  What about  my property value?  There is no plan this company has nothing.  They are putting it in they are going to make the profit.  I am not going to get a dime.  If I have to smell the stuff day in and day out who is going to clean my rugs, my curtains and my couches two or three times a year? Who is going to spray stuff in the air to refresh the air?  If I can’t live there because I have got a nervous condition or whatever should happens to my health who is going to pay for that?  I am going to coming right back here to the County and saying, I want my money.  Secondly, normally when you do something like this, as an example the car factory there ISUZU in Lafayette for one (1) year EPA came down and puts air sampling machines and computers around the whole city.  They took a year of EPA readings for pollutions so they would have a base line.  There is no base line here this company doesn’t give any kind of base line.  Here all they do is the water for drainage according to computer analysis.  So that is not in here.  Then of course we don’t know how much our property values are going to go down to the floor.  Is the County going to want lesser property taxes to come in from people in the town and from people around the township?  Because it smelling every day are you going to want to buy my house?  No, you are not going to want to buy my house. I am not going to be able to sell it.  This thing is to close to Monon it should be farther west or set it farther east but it is just to close.  There is just too much potential damage going to happen.  We just don’t need it that close.  Thank You.”

Chairman Burton asked, “As far as response to contingency plans, IDEM in filing for a permit with IDEM that is part of that permit, IDEM?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “My name is Mike Veejhuizen and I am with Livestock Engineering Solutions.  I represent the engineering design and the permitting of both the JBW and B&B Pork sites.  If I understand your question regarding a contingency plan.  IDEM has a statue and regulations in place.  Any violation or discharge from these two (2) sites would be enforced upon and there would be monitory fines associated with those discharges and then changes in practice.  IDEM doesn’t require a bond or financial assurance as part of their permitting program.”

Chairman Burton asked, “But my reference IDEM holds these buildings accountable?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “Accountable, yes.  IDEM holds these building significantly accountable.  The design of the buildings, the operation of the facility, the land application practices are all being reviewed and evaluated and considered part of the permit issuance   Then there are regular monitoring and reporting requirements for these sites to IDEM to further document that they are in compliance.  That they are not creating an endangerment to human health or the environment.”

Chairman Burton asked, “That is yearly?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “Record keeping is continuous by the applicants.  During the first year IDEM will make at least two (2) site visits to the sites to evaluate their compliance and their performance.  Typically after that if they are found to be in compliance they will usually get a visit about every three (3) years.  Unless there is a complaint or incident.”

Chairman Burton asked, “If they came out and they found something severe could  they shut the buildings down if the owner is not…..if it is severe enough, the worst case scenario?” 

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “If it is severe enough IDEM has the authority to void the permit and shut the facility down.”

Chairman Burton replied, “I am referring to that in concerns as to what plans are in place if something severe did happen.”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “If  it is severe enough environmental impact, human health impact they have the authority and they have actually exercised  that authority in two (2) cases, three (3) cases here in Indiana in the last five (5) years.”

Attorney Loy asked, “Did I hear correctly that there is an IDEM public hearing scheduled in November?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “That is correct.”

Attorney Loy continued, “When and where is that?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “I received this information last Friday that there would be a public meeting.  I called this morning to confirm if in fact they had it set.  They have shared with me that it will be November 1, 2011 from 4:00 to 7:00 in the afternoon-evening.  It will be held at the Monon Civic Center,  Fourth Street and 421 I believe.”

Attorney Loy replied, “That is a public hearing conducted by IDEM to take public comments on the IDEM application is that right?”

Michael Veejhuizen answered, “That is correct, it will be a public information and availability meeting conducted by IDEM.  I anticipate the floor mat will be that there will be representatives from permitting, compliance, IDEM policy and rules.”

Helen L. George then spoke.  “Good morning, my name is Helen L.  George and I live at 2281 West 900 North, Monon, Indiana. I live in America’s Rural Heart Land.  I am here representing the families who live in the vicinity of the proposed Ag. factory, for construction site and designated land application.  I am going to start with the George Farms. Numbers 3575 and our residence, located within one half (½) mile of the production site.  I have document #1
We have eighty (80) acres S SE  07-28-04
We have eighty (80) acres  S SW  07-28-04
We have eighty (80) acres  W NE 18-28-04 
In those sections and within one (1) mile of the designated land application for manure.
We have twenty-seven point six eight (27.68) acres at 14-28-05
Eighty (80) acres N NE 11-28-05
Sixty (60) acres out of NW 11-28-05
I am going to go down to drainage.  We presently have these ditches that we are paying on for our farms.  Floyd A. Brown three (3) of our parcels drain in that.  Edwin Cochell there is one (1) and that happens to be the one that is just across the road from the site that is being proposed.  I have a document that shows that there are eleven (11) residents, property owner I am going to say.  Eleven (11) property owners within this one half (½) to one (1) mile who drain in the Cochell Ditch along with the original eighty (80) acres where the site is going to be built.  So there are twelve (12) landowners draining into the Cochell Ditch which goes on to the Floyd Brown Ditch and that is on our land.  I will go on.  The H. Kesler and Branch #1 we have one (1) parcel draining there.  We drain into the Fern McKillip we have two (2) parcels.  Walter Chapman we have two (2) parcels.  Kenneth George we have one (1) parcel.  Owen Denton we have two (2).  So, these are the ditches, maintenances that we pay on.  I just want to share that as a landowner, not an inactive farmer’s wife, I am very happy and with everything that is going on and I have always have been.  We purchased this first land in 1965 our first.  That is the one that is eighty (80)  acres and that is where our home is at, right across from the site.  We have put thousands of dollars of tiling in.  I call these My Tiling, I have maps for every parcel that we have showing all the tile and all the different sizes.  If it is five (5) inch, six (6) inch they are all in red.  I posted them one day to my husband and I said you know those are the blood vessels of our farm and that is what keeps us with our good water.   One (1) more thing here.  I do have the percentage of water from the, including the eighty (80) acres where the site is going to be built.  The other eleven (11) I have the percentage from the Surveyor’s Office that showed exactly what percentage of the water is flowing through that Cochell Ditch that nobody can see any more. I also have from the Surveyor’s Office, a document that shows all of the ditches in this particular section.  I am concerned of the people, the residential homes, we are very populated west because of Lee, Lee Indiana.  We are in the very northwest corner of Monon Township.  There are over one hundred (100) residences right in that west section.  Those people are right in the area where the manure, designated manure spreading will be going on.  Some of them, one of them like I said I have those three (3) parcels that I am within a mile, one of mine I am not even within a half (½) of mile from it.  I am going to close but I just ask that, I am here I guess for this is our legacy for our family for which we have worked many years for.  I am not against progress I am definitely not that.  We know where our tiles are at and we check them to see that they are running.  Thank you for letting me let you know who I am. I am a farmer’s wife, I am grandmother and a great grandmother so thank you very much.”

Chairman Burton replied, “Thank you and one thing that I might add that is one reason we have the drainage plan here.  Our professional has reviewed these plans.  Part of these retention pits the idea is not release any more water, less water than what would normally come off of this ground.  So actually in a way there is some relief here that your functioning tile will not have a burden of extra water put on to it.  But by his comment actually less.  It is just held in retention and released at a slow rate.  So in an intendance storm it should have a positive affect to you current ground tile working verses no retention pond at all.”

Jeff Brown spoke next.  “I am Jeff Brown and I own the land right north of this.  I was just wondering if I could get copies of this since part of this is going to be some of tile goes through my property.  So I can have records so we can keep, that is all.”

Chairman Burton replied to Mr. Brown that this is a public meeting and he could have a copy of anything that was talked about or seen at the meeting.

Jeff Brown replied, “Like I said that is right next to my property.”

Next to speak Kerry Wheeldon. “My name is Kerry Wheeldon and I live at 1829 West 900 North, Monon.  My property is about one quarter (¼) of mile from both sites.  I have a lot of concerns about water drainage and everything.  Upon viewing investigations on all this  in terms of just being myself it is all of White County with what we are doing with all these CFO’s that are going in, that are already in.  This particular site is located on a hill.  The hill sloped off each way and all these ponds they are putting in catching rain water off the buildings it is a considerable amount.  It is good that they putting this in to stop the flow.  But they are also using the woods as a filter.  It filters thirty percent (30%) of everything coming out of that building.  When it rains it washes everything down into the ditch.  The ditch is about a hundred (100) yards from where that woods is at.  So everything that the woods has filtered is now running down into that ditch which flows right down into the Bedford area.  The Bedford area already has E-Coli problems.  The residents that were suggested not to swim, it is that bad.  They said not to submerse yourself in the water.  Everything that is running off, filtering out of this woods is going down into that ditch running into the Bedford area compounding the problem there.  Our lakes are an important part of this area and we are having E-Coli problems.  I did some calculations on the amount of manure that this is going to produce.  This one site per year will produce almost four million (4,000,000) gallons of manure.  They have a proposed two hundred and eighty-two point four (282.4) acres per building to spread it on.  That is going to be almost seven thousand (7,000) gallons per acre that they are going to spread it on a proposed area.  White County alone is producing almost seventy million (70,000,000) gallons of swine manure, that is just swine. We are spreading it on our fields it is going into the tiles, the ditches and right into the lakes. It would take two hundred and thirteen (213) gallons of manure on every acre in White County right  now just  to  get rid of it.  That is every acre in White County.  That is a lot of manure being spread especially around the lakes that we have.  There are also the hazards of the transportation.  A lot of their tracts to spread it on are west, every railroad tract from Monon the Rensselaer is at an angle.  There has been a death on every one of them.  They are going to be crossing these railroad tracts with their manure trucks.  If one of those happens to get hit what are we going to do?  Is there plans in place to clean up a spill?  Do they have to have something in place?  If they drive by my house and there is a valve open and they dump it all over my yard, does IDEM make them clean that up?  There also is going to be used, we were told that the pigs themselves will use twelve thousand (12,000) gallons of water a day.  Plus I am assuming they have daily wash downs.  This place could use over seventeen thousand (17,000) gallons of water a day.  I am concerned about my well drying up, that is a lot of water.  That is equivalent of running a pump over twelve (12) gallons a minute, every minute, every day.  We have a responsibility for our environment.  Our environment is already taken a hit.  It is your guy’s responsibility to make sure that it does not get any worse.  I feel that you have already failed us, the lakes already have problems.  When do we stop this, when is enough, enough?  How much to we continue to harm ourselves as a County?  Thank you.”

Chairman Burton replied, “Thank you.  The first thing about the run off, these retentions will hold at your calculations did I hear you correct, you went up to a hundred (100) year?”

Engineer Frauhiger continued, “Yes. The way the drainage ordinance is written calculate the amount of water that comes off the existing site in the existing conditions at the two (2) year storm and at the ten (10) year storm.  What happens after development at the ten (10) year storm as the site sits with the gravel and the buildings.  You are allowed to release at the two (2) year pre-developed rate. So you have to hold all that water.  At the hundred (100) year storm when the hundred (100) year storm falls  on this site you have to hold the water and you are allowed to release on the ten (10) year pre-developed rate.  It is requiring people to grab the water, hold it on site and reduce the peak that everyone sees downstream.  That was the reason the ordinance was put into effect probably ten (10) or fifteen (15) years ago.”

Attorney Loy interjected, “Todd, we do not permit, we would not approve a drainage application that contemplates the mixing of surface water with waste. Is this the case here?”

Engineer Frauhiger replied, “This review that we have done is total storm water.  It does not mix waste with storm water.”

Kerry Wheeldon asked, “What about the stuff that is filtering out of the woods?  That woods filters all the air flow and nasty stuff out of the building and it is going to get washed down every time it rains.  Where does that go?”

Engineer Frauhiger answered, “I am not sure what you mean the woods filtering it.  I am not sure how that operation works I assume that…”

Kerry Wheeldon replied, “They told us they put it that way so the woods filters thirty percent (30%) of everything coming out of the building.”

Engineer Frauhiger said, “I am sure they are talking about storm water if they are talking about waste I can’t help you.”

Board Member Heimlich said, “No, they are talking about odor.”

Brian Putt then spoke.  “Men, I am Brian Putt, I am Joel’s dad.  I happen to farm right in the southwest corner of Pulaski County.  I own some property in White County.  I farm some in White, Jasper and Pulaski Counties.  Grandpa just settled in the corner of the County.  I really appreciated what the fine people all they had to say.   Just a couple of points, we respect the tile greatly, that is why I didn’t know exactly how Mike was going to have all this laid out.  It thrilled me when this follow that is independent says we have met everything possible.  There is an irrigation system to the west of this property.  It is about a half (½) mile irrigator.  They normally take five hundred (500) gallon minute obviously when it is dry.  I know twelve thousand (12,000) gallons sounds like a lot.  Mike would know actual gallons the meter would show.  But twelve thousand (12,000) a day verses five hundred (500) a minute.  If anybody’s well is going to go dry it is the guy that is taking five hundred (500) a minute verses the guy is taking five (5) a minute.  We sure don’t want to have any spills next to anybody’s house and yes, any point in time IDEM can be called.  Joel and I do not plan on hauling manure.  I know the company that specializes in it will be doing it.  We would sure like to be notified and also IDEM if there is something that is offensive to anybody.  I think Mike had something to say about the leaves..”

Mike Veejhuizen then spoke.  “My name is Mike Veejhuizen with Livestock Engineering Solutions. Just for clarity and to help everyone understand.  The intent of the wooded lot and the vegetative  cover is to help with the air emissions and help disperse and dilute those and reduce any potential transmission or the distance of transmission.  The gentleman’s comment about and he is correct I stated that we can use the natural filters to capture the dust.  The dust is one of the primary carries of the emissions and odors.  Those particulates will be washed off with a normal rain fall with the vegetative cover and  with the drainage in this particular property.  The amount of run off and the amount of dust particles leaving the site will minimized as well just because of the natural soil cover or vegetative cover.  In comparison these have been used in numerous situations.  Adjoining drainage ditches and surface water features have not seen a negative impact resulting from normal storm water releases from these production sites.”

Board Member Heimlich had a couple of comments.  “What the drainage board is here to act on today is whether this drainage plan meets our ordinance which our engineer says it obviously does. I understand the concerns of the people in the area.  I have got two (2) buildings, I don’t have them, I live within a mile of two (2) building exactly like what they are proposing here, the quad buildings. Honestly, I would never know they are there except I can see them from my place.  I never smell and they inject manure within less than a quarter (¼) mile of my house.  When it is injected I don’t notice it.  The other point is that this certainly isn’t something new.  I was looking at the Ag. census in 2007 and there were three hundred and fifty thousand (350,000) hogs fed out in White County.  Say sixteen thousand (16,000) a year that sound like a lot but there is already three hundred and fifty thousand (350,000).  I think that is probably conservative, I know there is some of these building that have gone up since then.  I never hear any complaints from the neighbors in those areas.  I can think of some with some pretty nice houses pretty close to those outfits.  Yes, there can be abuses.  I know of cases where IDEM has fined farmers in this County.  I think I mentioned that at the hearing a month ago, for not operating properly.  If the operation is run properly my own experience within a mile of a couple of these is you never notice it.” 

Chairman Burton commented, “Again, this is a tourism County the water is important to us that is one reason by ordinance we ask any project similar to this whether it is a hog operation or whether it is a factory to come before us.  To make sure there is a plan and a functional drainage system to not produce more water into our ditches and drains than is already there.  The one comment about the manure being applied.  That manure that will be applied is a substitute for commercial fertilizers that would be purchased at your fertilizer dealers.  The amount of nutriments put back on that ground will not be any greater than what would have been put there commercially by sprayers or  by dry spreaders.  The increased risks of the manure being applied and it is my understanding the intent or the application is you are going to inject.  It will not be surface applied.  It should be no greater than what the risk is there currently with phosphates and  etc.”

Board Member Diener then made his comments on the issue.  “Today we are charged either with accepting or rejecting the drainage plan of the proposed site.  This drainage plan through their engineers and through the County engineer exceeds the discharge of surface water.  That is what we are talking about surface water into any surface tiles or ditches in the area.  That is all we can do and I think the proposal they have made is more than adequate, better than they needed to do.  Again everyone understand that anyone who lives in particular areas have particular problems.  This is a drainage hearing for a drainage plan and it meets the plan.”

With no other comments or discussions Board Member Diener made the motion to approve the drainage plan for JBW PORK, LLC AND B&B PORK INC.  Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion.  The motion carried unanimously.

Next from the agenda-Brookston Family Dollar Drainage Review
Viewing a computer generated plan

Engineer Frauhiger presented the review.  “This is a revision, there was an existing drainage plan for this site approved a couple of years ago.  The site never developed.  The owner has withdrawn that particular drainage plan and put a new drainage plan in.  Again they meet the ordinance.  What they plan on doing through the storm systems they are putting in which is this part right here.  Down into an existing storm sewer in Brookston. They have oversized the pipes significantly and they are providing all of their detention from their oversized storm sewers and in their man hole structures.  They also exceed the ten (10) year storm requirement and the one hundred (100) year storm requirement.  The downstream connection into the Brookston storm sewer at the weir plate.  That will cause water to back up into the system.  I did go ahead and run a hydraulic grade line.  It is a hundred (100) year storm the water will just start coming out of the structures in the parking lot.  The parking lot will remain dry, won’t flood.  It will just start ponding right at the inlets.  Again, I review the calculations, confirmed them and recommend approval.    “

It was asked if Brookston has a separate storm drains verses a combination storm and sanitary sewers?  The answer from the Engineer Frauhiger was they are separate.

Engineer Frauhiger continued, “When this site was originally approved a couple of years ago I met with Max in Brookston to go over the drainage plan.  The discharge point is the same point as it was a couple years ago.  I didn’t re-talk to Max but I assume that it was ok with Brookston then it would be ok with them now.”

With no further comments or discussions Board Member Heimlich made a motion to approve the drainage plan for the Brookston Family Dollar.  Motion seconded by Board Member Diener.  Motion carried unanimously.

Next from the agenda Clapper Funeral Services Drainage Review
Viewing paper plan by Todd Frauhiger and Tony Cain

Engineer Frauhiger presented the review for Clapper Funeral Services.  “I don’t think we have a real good drawing of what is planned.  I have been working directly with the developer and Tony Cain.  Basically what is happening is there is an existing private tile from what we could tell.  It is an eight (8) inch private tile, it is on the property.  What is planned is the water shed, I went out and visited the site, the water shed currently flows to the east.  There had been a design to put an eight (8) inch tall brim along the eastern edge of the property, wrapping around the north side and the south side.  Shoot flow over to that brim with everything coming through a drop structure into the eight (8) inch tile.  I reviewed their calculations had some concerns dealt directly with Tony.  This is actually going to be a foot tall brim instead on an eight (8) inch around.  At the hundred (100) year storm that would give us about six (6) inches of free board.  We don’t have any way that water can over top and get on the adjoining property.  The one concern that I have is no one seems to know who owns that private tile.  It goes into a regulated drain but it crosses the site currently water goes into it so I assume the water can continue to go into it.” 

Surveyor Ward replied, “I think it was put in as a perimeter drain when they built the subdivision.  I think it was intended for all the lots.  A perimeter drain for the lots for that subdivision.”

Board Member Diener asked, “But there was no drainage plan done for that?” Surveyor Ward answered, no it was pre-drainage ordinance.”

Attorney asked, “There was no recorded easement?”  Surveyor Ward replied, “Not that was noted on the subdivision plat.”

Engineer Frauhiger continued, “With the four (4) inch connection pipe, with the dropped pipe into the eight (8) inch and the one (1) foot brim around we meet the ordinance as far as flow goes.  We will keep the water on this property and keep it off the adjoining property. I would recommend approval with the one (1) foot brim around the edges instead of the eight (8) inches.”

At this time there was discussion regarding work had already began on the site and Engineer Frauhiger said he had been in contact with Tony Cain and that he wanted the brim a little higher.

Board Member Diener made a motion to approve the drainage plan for Clapper Funeral Services on Lot 10 of the Industrial Park Subdivision located in Brookston, Indiana. Board Member Heimlich seconded the motion.  The motion carried unanimously.

Next on the agenda-The Joseph Kellenburger Drain #553 Maintenance Modification

Surveyor Ward presented the Maintenance Modification.  “This is a project that has been on the agenda for a while.  I brought it to the Board probably three (3) months ago.  As of right now it collects four dollars ($4.00) an acre and I am proposing to take it to twelve dollars ($12.00) an acre.  I have an estimate for this project of sixteen thousand dollars ($16,000.00).  It is a little more than a mile of replacing tile.  At the proposed collection it will bring in about eighteen thousand dollars ($18,000.00) for three (3) years.  So that would leave us some money to do work, maintenance, if anything else would break down in the system.”

Chairman Burton asked, “What is it currently?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “It is currently four dollars ($4.00) an acre.”

Chairman Burton asked, “Four dollars ($4.00) an acre. Are you proposing this twelve dollar ($12.00) as a continuous or is this a short term?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Three (3) years.” Chairman Burton continued, “Three (3) years and then it rolls back to the four dollars ($4.00)?”  Surveyor Ward said, “It rolls back to four dollars ($4.00) at that time.  It currently has a five dollar ($5.00) minimum.  Which consist of twenty-two (22) tracts.  I have that proposed at twenty dollar ($20.00) minimum.”

Attorney Loy asked, “Notices have been sent to all landowners?”   Surveyor Ward replied, “Notices have been sent.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “What is the acreage on this?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “It benefits four hundred and sixty-seven (467) acres. There is forty-three (43) parcels in that and thirty-five (35) landowners.”

Attorney Loy asked, “No remonstrates, right?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “We received no written.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “How much does it bring in now?”  Surveyor Ward replied, “Currently brings in over two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) a year.  The balance in the account is just over one thousand dollars ($1000.00) as of Friday.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “The project is solely replacing tile?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Yes, about twenty-eight hundred (2,800) feet.”

Mike Reynolds (landowner) spoke. “If it is brings in two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) a year and we only got one thousand dollars ($1,000.00) in it where did the money go is one (1) thing?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Maintenance projects, fixing broken down tiles.”  Mike Reynolds asked, “Where?  I live there, where?  The only thing I have seen is a little bit of field tile across four hundred (400) and it was just a culvert.”  Surveyor Ward replied, “The Triple D Farm had work done on it this year. The Sickler Farm had work done on it this year. The Wooten that lives in the Rose Loop Subdivision has had work done on it this year also and last year.”

Chairman Burton stated, “Again we are a public meeting and there is a, I call it a big book.  Each tile has its own account.  You can go down there and open up the book and see exactly when and who received money on these repairs.  We are just holding that two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) as kind of like a credit.  As these expenses come in we pay these out.  There is no secret to any of these past repairs.”  Mike Reynolds replied, “I live there and I haven’t seen any activity.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “What is the total length of this tile?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “There are actually three (3) tiles in this system.”  Board Member Heimlich asked, “They all pay into the Kellenburger?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Yes.”

Mike Reynolds asked, “Is this the one that runs all the way down two twenty-five (225), is that the one you are talking about?”  Surveyor Ward replied, “The open ditch that runs off Honey Creek.  It runs along Range Line then there is a main tile that runs off and goes into Triple D Farms, the Diener farm.  Then out in Wooten’s pasture there is a catch basin and from that point on up a half (½) mile, three quarters (¾) of a mile that is where the proposed project is.”  Mike Reynolds asked, “Then you are not going to do anything down two twenty-five (225) then?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “No.”  Mike Reynolds said, “That is the one that needs attention big time. That is the one that they messed with like three (3) or four (4) years ago.  Then Schroeder had to run a ten (10) inch line all the way across Cole because their tile was not working.  He was never paid for  that and they upped the fees on that a few years back.  It is from two twenty-five (225) runs right along it.  That tile does not work.  Schroeder had to put a tile in this year off his property because that one there has not been working. They have been told about it many times.”  Surveyor Ward asked, “Is that a Kellenburger Tile or do you know off the top of your head?”  Mike Reynolds replied, “I do not know if just runs right along two twenty-five (225) then heads straight east to the Honey Creek.”

Board Member Heimlich asked, “Is that a County Tile or a private tile?”  Mike Reynolds answered, “Yes it is, it is a County Tile.”  Surveyor Ward asked, “Is that on the east side of thirty-nine (39)?”  Mike Reynolds said, “It is on the south side of two twenty-five (225).”  Surveyor Ward replied, “I do not believe that is the Kellenburger Tile.  If you want to come over to the office and show me which one it is.”

Mike Reynolds said, “Our water on my one (1) property runs straight east it doesn’t have anything to do with this.  This tile where I live at now runs straight south doesn’t have anything to do with this it runs north.”  Chairman Burton explained, “Again with the water shed if your water doesn’t go that direction that property should not be paying out.” 

See digital minutes for discussion of Mike Reynolds on the location of tile & whether his acreage is in the Kellenburger water shed.

Surveyor Ward said, “You have six (6) acres of your twenty-two (22) going into there, does that sound right?”  Mike Reynolds answered, “That is what they have got it staged at.  That is completely on the east side of the ridge.  Water can’t run up hill that is for sure.  I have got a high ridge there.” Surveyor Ward said, “We can look at it.”

Drainage Board Members and Surveyor Ward at this point were reviewing a map trying locate which tile Mike Reynolds has been discussing.  See digital minutes for this discussion.

Chairman Burton continued, “If he has got six (6) acres or whatever that can be changed if it is definitely not part of that.”

Surveyor Ward said, “We did have a lady call this morning.  She could not be here today, she didn’t like the fee.” (Patricia Snowberger-Lot 3 in Ten High Acres Subdivision-standing water on lot.)

Micheal Collins spoke next.  “I am Mike Collins I own thirty-three (33) acres on the east side of the tracks.  It doesn’t drain I had to fix it to get it to drain even close to this.  I have a half (½) mile, quarter (¼) mile of drive way that I have to maintain.  Now is that my maintenance that goes down my drive way or is that a County Tile that I should be reimbursed for fixing getting it to drain?”  Surveyor Ward replied, “I believe that is a private tile that runs down your drive way.”  Micheal Collins said, “What if I just block it off and just let my land swamp out, it is just a woods anyhow.”  Chairman Burton replied, “It doesn’t work that way.”  Micheal Collins replied, “So I am charged to drain on even… If my tile would collapse down in my drive way tomorrow and I choose not to fix it.  I am still being taxed on my water run off that is not going anywhere because the rail road tracks are all bent up and a sand hill on the south end is not letting it drain down the rail road tracks to the Honey Creek?  My water has to loop around into the Kellenburger Ditch, down through the subdivision which has got two (2) holes still on top of the tile practically.  So they are only going to fix a short part in a farmer’s field which I would sort of think then would be their responsibility.  If my ditch along my drive way is my responsibility then why wouldn’t farmers take care of their own responsibility getting it to the main ditch which would be the Honey Creek?”

Board Member Heimlich explained, “If it is a private tile they do.  But if it is a regulated drain which the Kellenburger is.  Micheal Collins said, “It is running through some body’s farm field right now? Alright, this is a pretty big increase to twelve dollars ($12.00) from four dollars ($4.00). I know it is just a periodic increase for three (3) years but if we see it go down, I guess we see it go down.”

Jimmy W. Powers spoke next on behalf of his parents Jimmy D. and Betty L. Powers.  “I just want to understand the location of where the work was, my parents are on two twenty-five (225) the first house.  We have a ditch on this side of the property and a ditch across the back.  I just wanted to make sure that I understood what was happening and see that ditch where the changes are going to be made.  Surveyor Ward explained to Mr. Powers the location of the tile that would be replaced.  The work would be north of his parents parcel. Mr. Power said, “Ok, alright, thank you.”

Micheal Collins asked, “Is it going to be upgraded to a bigger size so it drains better?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “It will be the same size that is in there but it will work better because it won’t have any dirt in it when they first put it in.”  Micheal Collins replied, “Yeah, when they first put it in.”

Chairman Burton asked, “The age of the existing tile?”  Surveyor Ward replied, “One hundred (100) years.”  Chairman Burton asked, “Is it clay?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Yeah, old clay tile where it hasn’t been patched already.”

Comment from Board Member Diener. “If you are putting in corrugated tile will it be equal in size to the clay, won’t it have to be bigger?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Slightly.”  Board Member Diener continued, “I didn’t mean that as an ambush.  It will be the same size but technically it will be bigger.”

Chairman Burton presented the following:

I.C. §36-9-27-42




Chairman Burton stated, “With that being said as far as your concerns that you feel your water is not being properly assessed of going the right direction.  I will offer the Surveyor’s ability’s to modify.”  Board Member Heimlich replied, “That can be changed if you show him that you have got tile going a different direction then you can be taken off the assessment roll on that drain.  Chairman Burton also added, “If you are taken off that assessment roll you will end up some place else so it is not like you can hold all your water.  Unfortunately by ordinance whether your water stays on your property or not you are in a water shed somewhere.”

See digital minutes for more conversations of Michael Reynolds and Micheal Collins same issues as above conversations.

Surveyor Ward invited Michael Reynolds and Micheal Collins to the Surveyor’s Office after the meeting for more discussion and information.

Next discussion-The Big Creek Ditch #508

Surveyor Ward stated, “Got a wash out and a beaver dam.  It is going to be expensive to repair.  I am guessing somewhere in the neighborhood of five thousand dollars ($5,000.00).  There is probably ten (10) trees down and a beaver dam probably one hundred (100) feet wide.  Did you get a chance to get out there John (Board Member Heimlich)?”  Board Member Heimlich replied, “No, I didn’t.  I talked to Mr. Bick the other evening but I didn’t get out there.”

Chairman Burton asked, “Where are we at?”  The answer was on the Big Creek just east of the Range Line, south of four hundred (400). 

Surveyor Ward asked how he should approach the repair and was advised to quote it.

Attorney Loy stated, “Quote it.”

Board Member Heimlich will go look at it sometime with Mr. Bick. The Board questioned how expensive and what needed to be done with the wash.  Surveyor Ward didn’t know exactly what should be done but he thought it would be expensive.  

Next discussion-Private crossing on the E.  Rayman Ditch #572

Just for the Board’s information Surveyor Ward said, Norbert Pilotte on the Rayman Ditch has a private crossing and he feels that we damaged it when the Rayman Ditch was dredged.  He says underneath his bridge is washing out.  Surveyor Ward had taken a picture of the private bridge and there was no water in the ditch at this time. Surveyor Ward said, “I told him we don’t take care of private bridges.”  Chairman Burton asked, “This is west of two thirty-one (231)?”  Surveyor Ward answered, “Yes, about one half (½) mile. You go back a grass lane, do you know where it is at?”  Chairman Burton answered, “Yes.”

With no further discussions Chairman Burton adjourned the October 17, 2011 White County Drainage Board Meeting.